Resist The Authoritarian Response To The Coronavirus

[GMantis]

Of course the best solution IMO is to just treat it the same way as the flu but of course in a media dominated age that wouldn't happen.

If under best you mean the best way to increase the death toll, then you're right.

[GMantis]

I think it's important to note that China's response to this crisis was a total and complete failure.

This is to put it mildly, ridiculous. Their initial response was disastrous but once they took up the necessary measures, they have managed to curtail the infection. If you want to see total and complete failure, see Italy. Or much of Europe for that matter

This is the authoritarian response to a pandemic. It results in maximum misery, disinformation, and death.

The authoritarian response - total lockdown; tracking down and containment of all persons in contact with the infected - is the only one that works. The reason this pandemic happened is that it was not implemented soon enough.

The blood will be on the hands of the CCP for this catastrophe. Our own administrators should not seek to mirror the way China dealt with this crisis, although I fear some already have emulated their response.

This is the stark face of ideological purity -  ignore the only method that works, because the ideological enemy has used it. But of course you're free to emulate the European response, with its attendant infection rates.

That being said, this is an extraordinary situation. This is no time to chill at a bar or restaurant. You will endanger yourself, you will endanger others, and you will make this crisis worse.

So why are you then opposed to measures which would prevent this danger? Not all people are responsible, this is why there are laws to keep them in line. And extraordinary circumstances require extraordinary measures.

[GMantis]

I think it's important to note that China's response to this crisis was a total and complete failure.

This is to put it mildly, ridiculous. Their initial response was disastrous but once they took up the necessary measures, they have managed to curtail the infection.

Irrelevant. Beijing dithered for days and chose to cover up community transmission as long as they could. Had the global community known about this sooner, this virus could have been contained more effectively and at a lower cost.

There was plenty of opportunity to act once community transmission became known. In most cases no action was taken for weeks. So you can't transfer all the blame to China for the international spread of the infection.

If you want to see total and complete failure, see Italy. Or much of Europe for that matter

So like what Wuhan looked like for much of January and February? I don't think 67,000 cases and over 3,000 deaths can be called a success.

They acted arguably too late. And compared to what would have happened without a quarantine, it was certainly a great success. At the very least it limited infection outside Hubei. Excluding that province, China has substantially lower infection rates than over 20 European countries and in none of these the infection looks even close to abating.

The authoritarian response - total lockdown; tracking down and containment of all persons in contact with the infected - is the only one that works. The reason this pandemic happened is that it was not implemented soon enough.

Protocols like social distancing, closing shops, and quarantines are not inherently authoritarian. What is authoritarian is shooting people who disobey quarantine orders (like some have proposed here!), clamping down on free movement and reliable information, and cordoning off cities from the rest of the world. All hallmarks of China's response to this panic, save for the first one...I hope.

A quarantine is clamping down on free movement. And as mentioned above, cordoning off Hubei greatly mitigated the infection rate in the rest of the country. You have a point about concealing the epidemic, but this happened in the early stage of the epidemic and it's obviously not one of the features that have helped stop the spread of the disease.

This is the stark face of ideological purity -  ignore the only method that works, because the ideological enemy has used it. But of course you're free to emulate the European response, with its attendant infection rates.

While it is true that nations like Italy did not take action fast enough to prevent a public health emergency, their response is starting to yield fruit. New infections are plateauing one week after the start of their quarantine and the number of new deaths may be beginning to fall.

I don't see much sign of plateauing. As the graphic shows, previous decline of the infection rate have been followed by increases. It's too early to say that this is a permanent trend. Also looking at the Chinese example even if this rate of decline is permanent it could still increase three to four times before it stabilizes.
Anyway Italy employed extensively those methods - limiting freedom of movement and locking down whole cities - that you have condemned as authoritarian. The major difference with China is the delay in acting and the considerably more liberal way of implementing them. And most other European countries have not taken up measures even remotely as severe as Italy's.

So why are you then opposed to measures which would prevent this danger? Not all people are responsible, this is why there are laws to keep them in line. And extraordinary circumstances require extraordinary measures.

This is an extraordinary situation, sure, but we should not run roughshod over the Constitution or legal protections put in place to protect civil liberties. There are already legal provisions for situations that require quarantines.

I can understand this viewpoint, but at least it can't be claimed that these measures don't work.

[GMantis]

This minor (don't lie and claim otherwise) pandemic has served as a wake up call.

Of course we could follow your so called freedom (in real life, your rights to freedom end when they start endangering others) and it would be a major pandemic pretty soon.

Inane rant snipped.

And this is in response to the still rather mild measures implemented in the United States? Wounder what you'd be doing if they had resorted to Italian style restrictions? Probably wouldn't be writing here but attempting to start an armed rebellion...

What I really would like would be for you to experience first hand how the minor pandemic looks like in the worst affected area (Bergamo, for example) and then see if you still had the gall to pretend that this is an issue of freedom (in reality, undisguised egoism).