The Wisconsin Cheese Showdown (user search)
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Nichlemn
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« on: March 13, 2011, 11:02:36 AM »

Can someone explain to me why public unions are needed? Why can't the legislature dictate compensation levels and the voters can decide if they're insufficient, just like for any other spending?

Full post on the issue on another forum
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Nichlemn
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Posts: 1,920


« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2011, 01:26:49 AM »

Democracy does nothing whatever to protect workers, niclemn,

So are you claiming that public workers should be protected from wage cuts even if a majority of voters supported them, or that representative democracy should be curbed from being able to make unpopular wage cuts?

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Well, political debates are inherently subjective. But baseless? There is plenty of public choice literature about the phenomenon of rent-seeking. The general idea is that lobby groups are able to achieve privileges for themselves because the benefits to them are concentrated, whereas the costs are diffused through numerous taxpayers who individually have little incentive to attempt to stop it.

Now, this doesn't show that public employees are "overcompensated" (even if we could agree on a definition of that). Perhaps, in the absence of unions, public employees would be "undercompensated" and so union power simply balances out whether would cause the low compensation. But without knowing the size of these effects, it's possible that it goes too far. If you're coming up with a theory for why democratic forces reduce public employee compensation below the optimal, it's disingenous if you don't consider the ways that democratic forces may also increase it.
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Nichlemn
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Posts: 1,920


« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2011, 09:02:31 AM »

There is plenty of public choice literature about the phenomenon of rent-seeking.

There's public choice writings on almost everything, but most of us choose not to take that lunacy seriously.

Nice argument.

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That's their purpose, yes. That doesn't say anything about whether they are "needed" or "good". After all, a cartel can be formed for similar purposes and I bet you don't approve of cartels. The reason I distinguish between private and public unions is that the government is generally seen as a much stronger force for social justice than business, presumably making it more likely that they will compensate "fairly" irrespective of union status.
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