Issue '04: Gun Control

[CARLHAYDEN]

On this issue of self-protection, what on earth do you think that I am employed for. Individual citizens do not need guns to protect themselves in ALMOST ALL cases. Thats what the Police and other law enforcement organisations are here for.

I personally carry a firearm at work (obviously), but I can honestly say that I have never and will never bring a firearm inside my house.

Non-sporting gun ownership in this country is the bain of my existence.

First, I do NOT believe your allegation of being "employed" in law enforcement.

Second, as the courts have repeatedly pointed out, the purpose of law enforcement personnel is the enfoce laws, NOT to protect citizens.

Third, I have yet to see you post anything "honestly."

[CARLHAYDEN]

I don't believe him either.

Either provide evidence that he's lying, or kindly shut up. Just because he doesn't take the position on this issue that you and CarlHayden think that a cop should take doesn't prove anything.

I would expect such behavior from a troll, but not you two.

I realize you believe that telling people to "shut up" and calling others who disagree with you 'trolls' is your method of communication, but, you ignored the key element in my post which every law enforcement officer is taught, namely, that legally, the purpose of law enforcement if to enforce the laws, NOT protect the citizens.

The courts have repeatedly made this point, and all law enforcement personell are aware of it.

[CARLHAYDEN]

I don't believe him either.

Either provide evidence that he's lying, or kindly shut up. Just because he doesn't take the position on this issue that you and CarlHayden think that a cop should take doesn't prove anything.

I would expect such behavior from a troll, but not you two.

I realize you believe that telling people to "shut up" and calling others who disagree with you 'trolls' is your method of communication, but, you ignored the key element in my post which every law enforcement officer is taught, namely, that legally, the purpose of law enforcement if to enforce the laws, NOT protect the citizens.

The courts have repeatedly made this point, and all law enforcement personell are aware of it.

I didn't call you a troll; in fact, I did the exact opposite. I said that I would expect such behavior from a troll, but not from you two, clearly implying that you were not included as trolls. You aren't trolls, which is why I find it even worse that you would stoop to such tactics.

Ok, I see your point, but I still don't see how that proves that Raggage is lying. His view doesn't agree with what he was taught, but I'm sure there are plenty of cops who think that way.

Accusing people of being liars does nothing to help the level of discourse on this forum. Attack the ideas, not the person.

First, Raggae has alledged that his supposed employement gives him 'credibility' on law enforcement matters.

Second, I have known a number of people in law enforcement in California, including several of the investigators in the Tate-LaBianca murders.  Raggae's claims smell, and I'm calling him on those claims as they constitute the basis for his law enforcement allegations.

Third, if Raggae has logical and factual basis for his arguments, let him make them (he had NOT).

Finally, law enforcement personnel in my experience are encouraged (in some departments required) to have access to an approved firearm while off duty.  So, Raggae's claim he will not carry a firearm into his own home is yet another claim which contradicts his claims.

[CARLHAYDEN]

My stepdaughter's neighber is a cop.

My godson's grandfather is a cop.

I used to shoot competetively with a couple of cops (both were ex gunnies).

I know cops, and raggae isn't one.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Why don't you try to get Kerry to take you stance?

It would increase Bush's victory margin.

Oh, and why the 2-week waiting period (is this just another case of harassment)?

And, as to the "permit," who decides and what criteria are involved?

And if a right is to be subjected to such conditions, what conditions do you attach to the right to freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of press (but to name a few)?

[CARLHAYDEN]

Unfortunately, this is NOT all that unusual.

In California, there is a fifteen day waiting period to purchase a firearm from a licensed dealer.

I remember when three women in Southern California were killed in a year while waiting for their firearms to defend themselves.