The American Right: The more things change....

[Vosem]

The only statements which the American right still espouses (beyond individual cracks, as still totally mainstream political positions) are those of Goldwater and Reagan. And they are both absolutely true. (The second isn't ongoing at this very minute, and hasn't, as many on the right allege, been ongoing for the past several decades, but it is true in principle.)

[Vosem]

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Is hating Jews somehow more offensive than hating any other ethnic or religious group?

Considering that Jews have been the victims of outright genocide historically, while other groups have not, one could argue that this is in fact the case. That said, I'm Jewish, so perhaps I'm not a neutral observer.

[Vosem]

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Is hating Jews somehow more offensive than hating any other ethnic or religious group?

Considering that Jews have been the victims of outright genocide historically, while other groups have not, one could argue that this is in fact the case. That said, I'm Jewish, so perhaps I'm not a neutral observer.

??

Are you seriously saying that groups besides the Jews have never been victims of genocide?

Obviously not (that was quite poorly phrased), just that most groups haven't and Jews have, and that one could argue that it is more offensive to discriminate against groups such as Jews (and Bosniaks and Tutsis) that have suffered genocide. 'Other groups' is not in this sense 'all other groups'. I didn't realize grammatical ambiguity existed there; sorry.

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Is hating Jews somehow more offensive than hating any other ethnic or religious group?

Considering that Jews have been the victims of outright genocide historically, while other groups have not, one could argue that this is in fact the case. That said, I'm Jewish, so perhaps I'm not a neutral observer.

??

Are you seriously saying that groups besides the Jews have never been victims of genocide?

He is, and that is not an atypical position among zionists sadly.

Oh? Do tell me more.

[Vosem]

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Is hating Jews somehow more offensive than hating any other ethnic or religious group?

Considering that Jews have been the victims of outright genocide historically, while other groups have not, one could argue that this is in fact the case. That said, I'm Jewish, so perhaps I'm not a neutral observer.

??

Are you seriously saying that groups besides the Jews have never been victims of genocide?

Obviously not (that was quite poorly phrased), just that most groups haven't and Jews have, and that one could argue that it is more offensive to discriminate against groups such as Jews (and Bosniaks and Tutsis) that have suffered genocide. 'Other groups' is not in this sense 'all other groups'. I didn't realize grammatical ambiguity existed there; sorry.

At least Buckley was not a Jew hater to give him his due. The "intellectual" Right at once time tended to be both racist and Jew hating.

Is hating Jews somehow more offensive than hating any other ethnic or religious group?

Considering that Jews have been the victims of outright genocide historically, while other groups have not, one could argue that this is in fact the case. That said, I'm Jewish, so perhaps I'm not a neutral observer.

??

Are you seriously saying that groups besides the Jews have never been victims of genocide?

He is, and that is not an atypical position among zionists sadly.

Oh? Do tell me more.

Well, the Israeli government was once a huge supporter of Apartheid, despite using the call of "Never again! Never again! Never again!" as their most commonly used defense of their territorial integrity.

The Israeli government, at different points in its history, was both an ally and a critic of the South African regime. In which it doesn't really differ much from other Western states (except in its collaboration with their nuclear program, which was admittedly a deplorable act). In any case, Israel denounced apartheid once and for all in 1987 (only one year after the US imposed sanctions, in 1986), and since then its government has changed completely; every high-profile politician from back then has retired, and of 120 Knesset members only 3 are still in office, who were all unimportant backbenchers in 1987. So it's rather bizarre to try to criticize modern Israeli policy by comparing it or trying to link it to apartheid (as many do).

It is frankly hypocritical, especially since Gaza is probably the world’s largest concentration camp right now (though launching rockets at Jewish preschools is not excusable and greatly discredits their cause.)

I could go into a lot of detail, but the concentration camps did not have self-government and they did not wage wars with neighboring states. That should be sufficient.

Don't mistake me for being anti-Israel, because I am a supporter of Israel's right to exist.

OK...

I am just annoyed by the often heard claim (at least down here in Florida, where the local Tea Party groups are mostly Jewish or Christian Zionist) that the Holocaust somehow is a more legitimate genocide and lends Israel a free hand to do anything it wants, despite the fact that Israel was not even an independent state at the time of the Nazi atrocities.

I don't know what you or anybody else means by 'legitimate genocide' (it reminds of Akin talking about 'legitimate rape', to be honest), and obviously the Holocaust doesn't give Israel the right to do whatever it wants. But any people has the right to try to avoid discrimination and genocide, and after the Second World War the Jewish people and the international community came to the conclusion that the best way to do this was by establishing a Jewish state in Palestine. The parameters, government, and foreign relations of the state came later. The Holocaust gave Israel the impetus for its founding, but it doesn't justify Israel's present actions -- which, for the most part, don't need any such exotic justifications.