prove that the jews were held as slaves by egyptians without using the bible!

[Bo]

Prove that blacks were held as slaves in the South without using available written accounts.

Stop trying to change the subject.

Hey, Supersoulty brings up a legitimate point. My history teacher a few years back said that you never know whether something really occured or not for sure unless you were there directly.

[Bo]

As a more in depth response, the terms "slave" and "servant" (with two separate definitions of that word) are often conflated in scripture.  To be someone's "slave" did not necessarily mean extremely harsh treatment, or even have any negative connotations in many cultures and languages, indeed, the word "slave" is often used by Paul to describe how people ought to relate to Christ... and is used by Christ to his Apostles in the last Supper (actually to make the point that he no longer thinks of them as "slaves").

All the records that we have indicate that the Hebrews started out as servants to Pharaoh... and the scriptures say this to be true.  The historical records indicate that the Hebrews were a warrior class, in Egypt, under the service of Pharaoh.  But according to the scriptures, this changed.  Because of our way of viewing the word, we probably think of it as being a little more harsh than the original writers had intended (like masses of Hebrews being whipped by an Egyptian foreman, while they move massive blocks of stone to erect the monuments)... based on the treatment of the Bible, its probably more closely intended to mean something like "Second Class Citizen".

But, when a warrior class has a "protection" agreement with a ruling power, historically, two things tend to happen... the warrior class eventually gets treated as less than, or the warriors want out of the "agreement" and the ruler says "no, no... you protect us, but we protect you" ("feudalism"), and then the relationship is severed.  So there is no reason to think that the same could not have happened to the Hebrews.

The bible is not a primary source, and their are various articles that attempt to claim that the jews were never enslaved by the egyptians. Basically I am looking for an historical piece that can provide proof that the jews weres slaves/servants/second class citzens or whatever. Until that proof arises,well than I guess the jews were never enslaved.

Then I guess blacks were never enslaved either.

[Bo]

How about you ask God yourself.