Rank English speaking countries from most conservative to most progressive (user search)
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  Rank English speaking countries from most conservative to most progressive (search mode)
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Author Topic: Rank English speaking countries from most conservative to most progressive  (Read 2250 times)
mileslunn
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,837
Canada


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« on: June 21, 2021, 01:59:36 PM »

Of the six below rank them from most conservative to most progressive.  Below is my order but some may feel differently.

1.  United States
2.  Australia
3.  Ireland
4.  United Kingdom
5.  New Zealand
6.  Canada
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mileslunn
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,837
Canada


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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2021, 12:57:48 PM »

How are Canada and the U.S the farthest apart but the closest geography and (on the surface) culturally?

It is precisely because of that.  Being Canadian in big part is about not being American so there is strong tendency to what to go in opposite direction as many don't like what they see in US whereas in other English speaking countries US is far enough removed people focus less on what happens there.  Even though Canada has less income inequality than most English speaking countries, it is a huge issue here due to how bad it is in US.  In other English speaking ones, a parallel private health system has existed for years and no one, not even parties on left have a problem with it, while in Canada a private clinic opens and many get all upset worried its going to mean end of universal health care.  On abortion, its really discussed in other English speaking countries while in Canada any talk of even minor limits gets people all nervous we will get what religious right in US wants.

Other reason too is Canada is only English speaking country that isn't English speaking in all parts.  Quebec is almost a quarter of country so that has some impact too.  By same token Quebec tends to be less consumed with US debates than rest of Canada is because of language barrier and there focus more on protecting French language knowing as long as they have different language little threat of Americanization whereas in rest of Canada because of how close strong desire to do everything to ensure we are different.
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mileslunn
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,837
Canada


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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2021, 08:16:26 PM »

How are Canada and the U.S the farthest apart but the closest geography and (on the surface) culturally?

Another thing is, while Americans and (English) Canadians are 90% the same culturally, there are a few big differences that result in different voting patterns.

I think religiosity is an enormous part of political differences between Canada and the US. Evangelical Protestantism is rare up here, while it is a major driver of conservative politics down south. Many Americans wear their faith on their sleeves to a genuinely creepy extent by Canadian standards.

Canadians are also a lot less chauvinistic. Don't get me wrong, we're patriotic too, but it manifests differently in Canada because we're not exactly a superpower but share a continent with one. The US is the economic, cultural, and military powerhouse of the world, and this lends itself to a "we're number 1" kind of right-wing nationalism. This obviously doesn't exist in Canada - instead there's a more Scandinavian cultural identity of "we're a pretty small and culturally insignificant country, but we have it good and like to keep things polite and peaceful" which lends itself to a preference for progressive politics.

Definitely that, but I would argue difference is not in spite of living next door but because of it.  Canadians because they are so similar always want to find a way to show how they are different as since share a common language and culture fairly similar so political values is one of the best ways of being different.  Ireland and UK do in some ways have similar parallel, but their Catholic religion and Irish language are big things Ireland uses to show differences not politics.  Yes few speak Irish language, but fact mandatory in school and all government signage has Irish and usually first line and larger print goes to this.  And unlike in Western Canada where many complain about French being on cereal boxes, no one seems to have a problem with Irish being used to extent it is despite few native speakers left.  Religion probably less of a difference although still a huge issue in Northern Ireland as Catholics and Protestants rarely live in same neighbourhoods and attitudes on whether remain in UK or join Republic of Ireland split along this.

Australia and New Zealand are both middle powers so not sure it plays as big a role.  Also US is unusually conservative for a Western country whereas Australia and UK are not so as they often say whenever you go too far in one direction, you get an equal and opposite reaction in other direction and in some ways that is what is happening in Canada.

Finally a big one is establishment.  In UK, establishment tends to favor Conservatives and I think in Australia much the same while in Canada our establishment often called Laurentian Elite is very much on progressive side and tends to favor big government and wary of more individualistic politics.  US establishment like Canada generally leans left although leans more right on fiscal policy but left on social.  But since US founded on a revolution unlike Canada, they have a much more anti-establishment culture whereas Canada's much like UK is more pro-establishment.  France despite being more left leaning also has strong anti-establishment like US that UK lacks for same reason.  Its why you see political riots quite often in France, but in UK it's mostly football riots but almost never political or at least rarely.  In UK anti-establishment was Labour Party in many ways while Tories when old PCs were pro-establishment, but Reform party very anti-establishment and it now dominates Tories so Canadian Tories and Labour are both anti-establishment in fairly pro-establishment countries.
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mileslunn
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,837
Canada


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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2021, 01:59:53 PM »


Unlike Europe or US, Canada didn't have quite the same strong working class although had some.  Another difference is unionization rates haven't fallen as fast as they have elsewhere and generally high unionization rates mean working class more organized and involved with left wing parties than in places where labour unions are quite weak. 

As for Brahmin left vs. Merchant right, Canada does have a strong Brahmin left and in fact Trudeau's tax policy very much targeted at that.  Yes he raised taxes on top 1% which would be mostly merchant right, but his middle class tax cut benefitted those most in top 10% but not top 1% and that top 10% but not top 1% tends to be where modern left is strongest.  Lots of public sector workers, professors, lawyers and other groups that lean heavily to left.  At same time in Canada merchant right is much weaker.  In Western Canada, this group leans right but in Ontario and even more so in Quebec tends to go heavily Liberal.  Business community at least in Central Canada favours Liberals and Canada at least in Central Canada is somewhat unusual in having unions and business supporting same party.  True you saw it in US in 2020, but more due to fact Trump was so toxic to both for different reasons, not necessarily something that will last.  In UK, they were united on Brexit (against it), but in general election went different ways. 

Quote
First of all, while being very culturally similar to the US, Canada is far more urbanized than the US. Hence, the left has a natural advantage it doesn't have in the US.


Actually US is about same in urbanization as Canada.  Where big difference is though is density of urban areas and how many live in suburbs vs. city proper.  In US, far fewer live in city proper than Canada and generally city proper tend to be lopsided left wing wins whereas suburbs much more competitive.  And even with suburbs, high density suburbs tend to lean more left than low density ones and in Canada a typical suburb has population density around 2,000 people per square mile while in US its usually only about 1,000 people per square mile and sometimes lower. 

Another reason is urban/rural split applies everywhere in US whereas in Canada its only for Ontario and West; rural Quebec and rural Atlantic Canada often vote for progressive parties and that is 1/3 of population.  If Tories dominated rural areas in those two areas like they do in Ontario and West, they would be a lot more competitive than they are now.
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