Foriegn Policy

[Derek]

So here's another policy I've been writing up and this is what it's come down to.

1. Increase funding for CIA to locate Osama Bin Laden.
2. Increase reward for knowledge or help locating Bin Laden.
3. Make finding Bin Laden our top priority overseas.
4. Stop any country that harbors a terrorist because they are just as guilty as the terrorists.
5. Stay on course until job is complete and Iraq is stable.
6. Send more troops if necessary.
7. Timetable is a white flag of surrender.
8. Our forces left Germany just recently so there is nothing wrong with being in Iraq.
9. Find out and fix what was wrong with our intelligence leading up to the Iraq War.
10. Invade Iran for harboring terrorists if new sanctions don’t work.
11. Stand by Israel in the face of an attack.
12. Seek congressional approval for invasion of Iran.
13. Place sanctions against North Korea.
14. Air raids are necessary if North Korea does not disarm.
15. Leave the U.N.
16. Form an alliance with Israel and other free nations who allow free elections.
17. Sometimes the only thing an enemy understands is a heat-seething missile.
18. Provide aid for Israel in times of need.
19. Protect Israel’s right to having its own sovereign nation.
20. Limit foreign aid to $10 billion each year, just enough to ease starvation.
21. Avoid meeting with dictators and terrorists.

You know we sold the weapons to Iran. That should be enough to prove that there are weapons there and should also motivate the U.N. to help. However my idea is to form the Federations United, F.U. Countries must allow for free elections to belong to this organization. As far as the heat-seething missile, while that's true war is and always should be the last option.

[Derek]

1. Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations
2. Entangling alliances with none

Yes but my outline was how to accomplish that.

[Derek]

1. Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations
2. Entangling alliances with none

Yes but my outline was how to accomplish that.

No, yours would accomplish the complete opposite of mine.

No it wouldn't. Those things you're mentioning don't just happen because we don't live in a perfect world. Free trade and peace through strength are the keys.

[Derek]

What "job" are we doing in Iraq?
What is the immediate national threat from North Korea?
What will invading Iran solve?
How is a "timetable" "surrender" and what are we surrendering and to whom?
How is ignoring our enemies going to solve our problems with them?
Why does Israel stand out as our ally?
What does actively refusing membership of the UN do for us?
How does placing monetary limits on foreign aid positively affect us or any other nation?

These are just my initial reactions.

That's alot to answer. Most of our foreign aid is sadly lost to corruption and adds to our deficit. This is unfortunate but true. The UN hates us and we shouldn't be there for that purpose alone. They talk and talk and talk with no action or serious movement. Forming alliances is very important so I say it's time for change and an F.U. would do just that. Oh we could have us, Britain, Israel, etc. I didn't say IGNORE I said AVOID MEETING. I'm talking Bid Laden, Chavez, Kim Jong Il, Qaddafi. Israel is a strong ally and beneficial politically in terms of defeating Islamic radicalism in the middle east. In Iraq we are building schools, homes, protecting women and children, being humanitarians and good stewards. We didn't leave Germany too long ago either for that matter. Invading Iran will stop them from nuking us or our allies. I believe they pose a bigger threat than Saddam did. A timetable is saying if you wait until August of 2011 when we leave, you'll be able to perform acts of terror again free of consequence.

[Derek]

I also think that it is a peaceful way of encouraging democracy without war.

[Derek]

I also think that it is a peaceful way of encouraging democracy without war.

Without negotiations or foreign aid, do explain.

I never said there wouldn't be any of that. Foreign aid mostly is lost to corruption so let's limit that and be careful with it. Other country's governments get ahold of our foreign aid and use it to build weapons to point at us even. There would be negotiations at the F.U. or Federations United. It would work like the UN but to be a member you must allow your citizens to vote on who their leaders are.

[Derek]

Please stop confusing campaign sign slogans with policy.

Me or Libertas?

[Derek]

I also think that it is a peaceful way of encouraging democracy without war.

Without negotiations or foreign aid, do explain.

I never said there wouldn't be any of that. Foreign aid mostly is lost to corruption so let's limit that and be careful with it. Other country's governments get ahold of our foreign aid and use it to build weapons to point at us even. There would be negotiations at the F.U. or Federations United. It would work like the UN but to be a member you must allow your citizens to vote on who their leaders are.

Iran votes on who their leaders are.  Should they have a voice?

Our main adversaries in the UN (France, Russia) hold free and open elections.

How would FU be different than the UN other than a more hilarious acronym?

Exactly how free are their elections? See this is why I'm against the UN because Iran still has nukes, Darfur, genocide. It's all a joke. My view of Federations United was technically to form an alliance with Britain and Israel.

[Derek]

1. Increase funding for CIA to locate Osama Bin Laden.
2. Increase reward for knowledge or help locating Bin Laden.
3. Make finding Bin Laden our top priority overseas.
4. Stop any country that harbors a terrorist because they are just as guilty as the terrorists.
5. Stay on course until job is complete and Iraq is stable.
6. Send more troops if necessary.
7. Timetable is a white flag of surrender.
8. Our forces left Germany just recently so there is nothing wrong with being in Iraq.
9. Find out and fix what was wrong with our intelligence leading up to the Iraq War.
10. Invade Iran for harboring terrorists if new sanctions don’t work.
11. Stand by Israel in the face of an attack.
12. Seek congressional approval for invasion of Iran.
13. Place sanctions against North Korea.
14. Air raids are necessary if North Korea does not disarm.
15. Leave the U.N.
16. Form an alliance with Israel and other free nations who allow free elections.
17. Sometimes the only thing an enemy understands is a heat-seething missile.
18. Provide aid for Israel in times of need.
19. Protect Israel’s right to having its own sovereign nation.
20. Limit foreign aid to $10 billion each year, just enough to ease starvation.
21. Avoid meeting with dictators and terrorists.

Bolded is what I agree with. Far too neocon and hawkish for my liking.

I thought you were an isolationist now?

me?

[Derek]

Exactly how free are their elections? See this is why I'm against the UN because Iran still has nukes, Darfur, genocide. It's all a joke. My view of Federations United was technically to form an alliance with Britain and Israel.

Darfur and genocide is in Africa and China and France have more involvement in that continent than Iran could ever hope for.

We have way more nukes than Iran.  Would we still be allowed?

Why do we need a Federations United to ally with Britain and Israel?  Is it really an alliance if we tell them what to do and leave if they disagree?

I didn't say anything about leaving if you disagree. It's not a government or a form of checks and balances. Nor should it be. It's a loose and friendly way of remaining in touch and helping each other is all. And yes I called it FU to be funny and I hope you at least get a laugh at that. Darfur is very unfortunate.

[Derek]

Exactly how free are their elections? See this is why I'm against the UN because Iran still has nukes, Darfur, genocide. It's all a joke. My view of Federations United was technically to form an alliance with Britain and Israel.

Darfur and genocide is in Africa and China and France have more involvement in that continent than Iran could ever hope for.

We have way more nukes than Iran.  Would we still be allowed?

Why do we need a Federations United to ally with Britain and Israel?  Is it really an alliance if we tell them what to do and leave if they disagree?

I didn't say anything about leaving if you disagree. It's not a government or a form of checks and balances. Nor should it be. It's a loose and friendly way of remaining in touch and helping each other is all. And yes I called it FU to be funny and I hope you at least get a laugh at that. Darfur is very unfortunate.

We can accomplish that without an entangling alliance.

Well ok, I just don't like isolationism in today's day and age. I'm not advocating a global government or regular meetings with the Brits or Jews.

[Derek]

Exactly how free are their elections? See this is why I'm against the UN because Iran still has nukes, Darfur, genocide. It's all a joke. My view of Federations United was technically to form an alliance with Britain and Israel.

Darfur and genocide is in Africa and China and France have more involvement in that continent than Iran could ever hope for.

We have way more nukes than Iran.  Would we still be allowed?

Why do we need a Federations United to ally with Britain and Israel?  Is it really an alliance if we tell them what to do and leave if they disagree?

I didn't say anything about leaving if you disagree. It's not a government or a form of checks and balances. Nor should it be. It's a loose and friendly way of remaining in touch and helping each other is all. And yes I called it FU to be funny and I hope you at least get a laugh at that. Darfur is very unfortunate.

We can accomplish that without an entangling alliance.

Well ok, I just don't like isolationism in today's day and age. I'm not advocating a global government or regular meetings with the Brits or Jews.

Well, we have a pretty strong ambassador system to keep in friendly contact with people.  And telephones.

You don't think FU would send a message to the UN though? What's your take on the UN btw?

[Derek]

Exactly how free are their elections? See this is why I'm against the UN because Iran still has nukes, Darfur, genocide. It's all a joke. My view of Federations United was technically to form an alliance with Britain and Israel.

Darfur and genocide is in Africa and China and France have more involvement in that continent than Iran could ever hope for.

We have way more nukes than Iran.  Would we still be allowed?

Why do we need a Federations United to ally with Britain and Israel?  Is it really an alliance if we tell them what to do and leave if they disagree?

I didn't say anything about leaving if you disagree. It's not a government or a form of checks and balances. Nor should it be. It's a loose and friendly way of remaining in touch and helping each other is all. And yes I called it FU to be funny and I hope you at least get a laugh at that. Darfur is very unfortunate.

We can accomplish that without an entangling alliance.

Well ok, I just don't like isolationism in today's day and age. I'm not advocating a global government or regular meetings with the Brits or Jews.

Well, we have a pretty strong ambassador system to keep in friendly contact with people.  And telephones.

You don't think FU would send a message to the UN though? What's your take on the UN btw?

Not really.  It would just be recreating NATO.

UN without the United States would probably be no different than UN with the United States as we only seem to ratify items we propose and we don't really listen to them.

And for that I'm glad. Obama scares me into thinking he'll let them walk all over us.

[Derek]

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1.  Osama bin Laden is not a threat to the security of the United States, and is most likely dead.
2.  ^^^
3.  ^^^
4.  Harboring terrorists...Well, Jihad Jane lived in the US...So did Mohammad Atta...
5.  Stable Iraq...That's what we call a paradox.
6.  ^^^
7.  ^^^
8.  ^^^
9.  ...Dick Cheney?
10.  By these same standards, you supported bin Laden attacking on 9/11.  He sanctioned us, telling us to remove our troops from the Middle East (not a ridiculous request), and we didn't do it. 
11.  Stand by an ethnic state while opposing a democratic government we have never been in conflict with (unlike Israel)?
12.  Invasion of a free democracy?  Wow Derek.  You don't value American lives for all that you preach.

I'm not gonna go on, but I could. 

You wish we would've coward to Bin Laden's demands to remove our troops? Value lives and valuing freedom go hand in hand. Israel is a political ally unless you want us to fail.

[Derek]

Israel is a political ally unless you want us to fail.

Our support of Israel is the one of the major reasons why our foreign policy is failing in the Middle East.

No it's because we aren't supporting them enough. Look I don't think anyone is going to agree here. We're talking in circles. I see it one way and you see it another way. It's like the issue of taxes for example. Speaking of, I'm going to post my economic bill soon.

[Derek]

Israel is a political ally unless you want us to fail.

Our support of Israel is the one of the major reasons why our foreign policy is failing in the Middle East.

No it's because we aren't supporting them enough. Look I don't think anyone is going to agree here. We're talking in circles. I see it one way and you see it another way. It's like the issue of taxes for example. Speaking of, I'm going to post my economic bill soon.

There would have been no 9/11, had we never supported Israel.

Wow the last time I checked it was 19 Islamic high jackers and none of them were Jewish.

[Derek]

So here's another policy I've been writing up and this is what it's come down to.

1. Increase funding for CIA to locate Osama Bin Laden.
2. Increase reward for knowledge or help locating Bin Laden.
3. Make finding Bin Laden our top priority overseas.
4. Stop any country that harbors a terrorist because they are just as guilty as the terrorists.
5. Stay on course until job is complete and Iraq is stable.
6. Send more troops if necessary.
7. Timetable is a white flag of surrender.
8. Our forces left Germany just recently so there is nothing wrong with being in Iraq.
9. Find out and fix what was wrong with our intelligence leading up to the Iraq War.
10. Invade Iran for harboring terrorists if new sanctions don’t work.
11. Stand by Israel in the face of an attack.
12. Seek congressional approval for invasion of Iran.
13. Place sanctions against North Korea.
14. Air raids are necessary if North Korea does not disarm.
15. Leave the U.N.
16. Form an alliance with Israel and other free nations who allow free elections.
17. Sometimes the only thing an enemy understands is a heat-seething missile.
18. Provide aid for Israel in times of need.
19. Protect Israel’s right to having its own sovereign nation.
20. Limit foreign aid to $10 billion each year, just enough to ease starvation.
21. Avoid meeting with dictators and terrorists.

You know we sold the weapons to Iran. That should be enough to prove that there are weapons there and should also motivate the U.N. to help. However my idea is to form the Federations United, F.U. Countries must allow for free elections to belong to this organization. As far as the heat-seething missile, while that's true war is and always should be the last option.

Most of this is ok, but leaving the UN would be incredibly stupid.

I'm advocating a new UN called the FU (Federations United). This only includes allies of the US.

[Derek]

So here's another policy I've been writing up and this is what it's come down to.

1. Increase funding for CIA to locate Osama Bin Laden.
2. Increase reward for knowledge or help locating Bin Laden.
3. Make finding Bin Laden our top priority overseas.
4. Stop any country that harbors a terrorist because they are just as guilty as the terrorists.
5. Stay on course until job is complete and Iraq is stable.
6. Send more troops if necessary.
7. Timetable is a white flag of surrender.
8. Our forces left Germany just recently so there is nothing wrong with being in Iraq.
9. Find out and fix what was wrong with our intelligence leading up to the Iraq War.
10. Invade Iran for harboring terrorists if new sanctions don’t work.
11. Stand by Israel in the face of an attack.
12. Seek congressional approval for invasion of Iran.
13. Place sanctions against North Korea.
14. Air raids are necessary if North Korea does not disarm.
15. Leave the U.N.
16. Form an alliance with Israel and other free nations who allow free elections.
17. Sometimes the only thing an enemy understands is a heat-seething missile.
18. Provide aid for Israel in times of need.
19. Protect Israel’s right to having its own sovereign nation.
20. Limit foreign aid to $10 billion each year, just enough to ease starvation.
21. Avoid meeting with dictators and terrorists.

You know we sold the weapons to Iran. That should be enough to prove that there are weapons there and should also motivate the U.N. to help. However my idea is to form the Federations United, F.U. Countries must allow for free elections to belong to this organization. As far as the heat-seething missile, while that's true war is and always should be the last option.

Most of this is ok, but leaving the UN would be incredibly stupid.

Getting in touch with your decidedly anti-conservative internationalist side?

Me? I don't want a global government if that's what you mean.

[Derek]

There had been no 9/11 if we just let the Soviets take Afghanistan.

Or if we had paid attention to our intelligence in the Summer of 2001.

Or if we had done a lot of other things differently.

And then the Soviets would've become a greater threat. That was a brilliant decision to support Afghanistan. Summer of 2001? I hope you're not serious, what about the Clinton era where we continued to cut funding for the CIA and FBI to the point they couldn't even work together? Done things differently? What does that even mean? Different in what way?

[Derek]

There had been no 9/11 if we just let the Soviets take Afghanistan.

Or if we had paid attention to our intelligence in the Summer of 2001.

Or if we had done a lot of other things differently.

And then the Soviets would've become a greater threat. That was a brilliant decision to support Afghanistan. Summer of 2001? I hope you're not serious, what about the Clinton era where we continued to cut funding for the CIA and FBI to the point they couldn't even work together? Done things differently? What does that even mean? Different in what way?

I'm saying there's a lot of things that could have changed and meant no 9/11.  But it didn't happen that way so we shouldn't dwell on the past.

That doesn't sound at all like what you were saying before but ok.

[Derek]

Israel is a political ally unless you want us to fail.

Our support of Israel is the one of the major reasons why our foreign policy is failing in the Middle East.

No it's because we aren't supporting them enough. Look I don't think anyone is going to agree here. We're talking in circles. I see it one way and you see it another way. It's like the issue of taxes for example. Speaking of, I'm going to post my economic bill soon.

There would have been no 9/11, had we never supported Israel.

Wow the last time I checked it was 19 Islamic high jackers and none of them were Jewish.

Hurrrrrrrrrrrr

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Did you like when Bush made words up?

[Derek]

Israel is a political ally unless you want us to fail.

Our support of Israel is the one of the major reasons why our foreign policy is failing in the Middle East.

No it's because we aren't supporting them enough. Look I don't think anyone is going to agree here. We're talking in circles. I see it one way and you see it another way. It's like the issue of taxes for example. Speaking of, I'm going to post my economic bill soon.

There would have been no 9/11, had we never supported Israel.

Wow the last time I checked it was 19 Islamic high jackers and none of them were Jewish.

Hurrrrrrrrrrrr

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Did you like when Bush made words up?

Your post was the epitome of the word "fail."

Which post? What is your idea?

[Derek]

You wish we would've coward to Bin Laden's demands to remove our troops?

It's not cowardice, it's inteligence.  Do you support Saudi Arabia?  They are a far greater threat to the the United States than Iran.

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Israel is a nation of political opportunists and idiots (who are also geniuses, but...)

They would stab us in the back without thinking twice if they could get something out of it.

You want us to do what Bin Laden tells us too? Write him in for the next election.

[Derek]

You wish we would've coward to Bin Laden's demands to remove our troops?

It's not cowardice, it's inteligence.  Do you support Saudi Arabia?  They are a far greater threat to the the United States than Iran.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Israel is a nation of political opportunists and idiots (who are also geniuses, but...)

They would stab us in the back without thinking twice if they could get something out of it.

You want us to do what Bin Laden tells us too? Write him in for the next election.

Answer my question.  I would not do what Bin Laden "told us to do", because I never would have put the United States in the decision for him to "tell us what to do" in the first place.

Do you like the Saudis?

Depends

[Derek]

1. Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations
2. Entangling alliances with none

Yes but my outline was how to accomplish that.

No Derek, your outline was the exact opposite. 

NO my end result is peace, but peace through strength, not cowardice.