Ben Carson Defends (Girlfriend Beating) Ray Rice

[dmmidmi]

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This.

[dmmidmi]

I guess the two questions I'd like to see answered by those who think Carson is in the wrong here are:

1) Why should Rice be demonized?

Because this:



is well outside of what is generally considered acceptable behavior. If one doesn't think he needs to be publicly shamed, they need to watch that video again. And again.

2) What does demonizing Rice accomplish?

This requires the assumption that outrage towards Ray Rice is intended to accomplish anything--and is anything but a perfectly normal reaction to seeing someone do something so egregious towards someone who is relatively defenseless--and could be anybody's mother, sister, daughter, friend, or cousin. I seriously doubt that there is an orchestrated effort to accomplish a goal or meet an objective by lashing out at Ray Rice.

Thus, this isn't the right question to be asking.

[dmmidmi]

I guess the two questions I'd like to see answered by those who think Carson is in the wrong here are:

1) Why should Rice be demonized?

Because this:



is well outside of what is generally considered acceptable behavior. If one doesn't think he needs to be publicly shamed, they need to watch that video again. And again.

2) What does demonizing Rice accomplish?

This requires the assumption that outrage towards Ray Rice is intended to accomplish anything--and is anything but a perfectly normal reaction to seeing someone do something so egregious towards someone who is relatively defenseless--and could be anybody's mother, sister, daughter, friend, or cousin. I seriously doubt that there is an orchestrated effort to accomplish a goal or meet an objective by lashing out at Ray Rice.

Thus, this isn't the right question to be asking.

And what is your opinion of the death penalty and mandatory minimums?

Those are two totally unrelated issues to Ray Rice throwing a haymaker at his fiancé, the NFL's response, and how the public perceives Ray Rice as a person, through the lens of what he did.

[dmmidmi]

I guess the two questions I'd like to see answered by those who think Carson is in the wrong here are:

1) Why should Rice be demonized?

Because this:



is well outside of what is generally considered acceptable behavior. If one doesn't think he needs to be publicly shamed, they need to watch that video again. And again.

2) What does demonizing Rice accomplish?

This requires the assumption that outrage towards Ray Rice is intended to accomplish anything--and is anything but a perfectly normal reaction to seeing someone do something so egregious towards someone who is relatively defenseless--and could be anybody's mother, sister, daughter, friend, or cousin. I seriously doubt that there is an orchestrated effort to accomplish a goal or meet an objective by lashing out at Ray Rice.

Thus, this isn't the right question to be asking.

And what is your opinion of the death penalty and mandatory minimums?

Those are two totally unrelated issues to Ray Rice throwing a haymaker at his fiancé, the NFL's response, and how the public perceives Ray Rice as a person, through the lens of what he did.

Unrelated to Rice directly?  Yes, but they're not unrelated to the purpose of the corrections system and society's role in supporting the corrections system, which is directly relevant here.  My guess, based on your lack of answering the question, is that you're opposed to both, correct?

I appreciate you putting words in my mouth, but the basis of your argument is shaky, at best.

You're trying to create a link between the people who think that Ray Rice should be publicly scolded for hitting his fiancé in the face, and those who are opposed to the death penalty and mandatory minimum sentences.

When, in fact, no such link exists, there's no reason for anyone to believe that this link exists, and the premise of this argument is nonsense.

[dmmidmi]

I appreciate you putting words in my mouth, but the basis of your argument is shaky, at best.

You're trying to create a link between the people who think that Ray Rice should be publicly scolded for hitting his fiancé in the face, and those who are opposed to the death penalty and mandatory minimum sentences.

When, in fact, no such link exists, there's no reason for anyone to believe that this link exists, and the premise of this argument is nonsense.

Not at all; I am using the opinion of being opposed to the death penalty and mandatory minimums as a proxy.  But as you are opposed to the proxy, I'll avoid the proxy and just ask the (albeit more complicated question): what is the purpose of the corrections system?

That's a question that many scholars can't sufficiently answer, let alone someone who isn't currently employed by (or hasn't spent significant time studying) the corrections system.

[dmmidmi]

I appreciate you putting words in my mouth, but the basis of your argument is shaky, at best.

You're trying to create a link between the people who think that Ray Rice should be publicly scolded for hitting his fiancé in the face, and those who are opposed to the death penalty and mandatory minimum sentences.

When, in fact, no such link exists, there's no reason for anyone to believe that this link exists, and the premise of this argument is nonsense.

Not at all; I am using the opinion of being opposed to the death penalty and mandatory minimums as a proxy.  But as you are opposed to the proxy, I'll avoid the proxy and just ask the (albeit more complicated question): what is the purpose of the corrections system?

That's a question that many scholars can't sufficiently answer, let alone someone who isn't currently employed by (or hasn't spent significant time studying) the corrections system.

Let me rephrase it: In your ideal world, what would the purpose of the corrections system be?

Still impossible to answer, because an conversations about a corrections system in an ideal world cannot be separated from how laws and societal norms are determined in an ideal world--or, what the expectations of the correctional system would idealistically be.

Using peoples' view on the corrections system as a proxy to criticizing Ray Rice is still a stretch, in my mind. I'm sure that if you researched this in-depth (no idea why you would), but you may find that plenty of pro-death penalty and pro-minimum mandatory sentencing supporters have taken Ray Rice to task via ESPN message boards, sports talk radio shows, and other outlets.

[dmmidmi]

I appreciate you putting words in my mouth, but the basis of your argument is shaky, at best.

You're trying to create a link between the people who think that Ray Rice should be publicly scolded for hitting his fiancé in the face, and those who are opposed to the death penalty and mandatory minimum sentences.

When, in fact, no such link exists, there's no reason for anyone to believe that this link exists, and the premise of this argument is nonsense.

Not at all; I am using the opinion of being opposed to the death penalty and mandatory minimums as a proxy.  But as you are opposed to the proxy, I'll avoid the proxy and just ask the (albeit more complicated question): what is the purpose of the corrections system?

That's a question that many scholars can't sufficiently answer, let alone someone who isn't currently employed by (or hasn't spent significant time studying) the corrections system.

Let me rephrase it: In your ideal world, what would the purpose of the corrections system be?

Still impossible to answer, because an conversations about a corrections system in an ideal world cannot be separated from how laws and societal norms are determined in an ideal world--or, what the expectations of the correctional system would idealistically be.

Using peoples' view on the corrections system as a proxy to criticizing Ray Rice is still a stretch, in my mind. I'm sure that if you researched this in-depth (no idea why you would), but you may find that plenty of pro-death penalty and pro-minimum mandatory sentencing supporters have taken Ray Rice to task via ESPN message boards, sports talk radio shows, and other outlets.

So you have no idea why we put people in prison?  Why do you think the corrections system should continue to exist?  Why should your tax dollars be spent on it?  If you can't answer that, then that's pretty incredible.

And I'm sure many of those people have, which just points out how illogical people often are.

I have my opinion, but I can guarantee that my opinion about who is thrown in jail/prison doesn't align with somebody else's--even though they may have a valid argument.

You're asking for a simple answer to a question that begs for a nuanced and well-crafted response. And I simply don't have the time to offer up the response the question deserves.

And one can reconcile the outrage over Ray Rice's decision to hit his fiancé across the face with their feelings on capital punishment. There are plenty of reasons beyond feelings on public policy that would trigger someone's reaction to that video. Apparently, that didn't dawn upon you. The human experience isn't defined solely by their political views. You're chasing a dragon that simply doesn't exist.

And I really don't appreciate the condescending tone, thank you.