Will Healthcare be the biggest issue in the Democratic primaries? (user search)
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  Will Healthcare be the biggest issue in the Democratic primaries? (search mode)
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Question: Your guess?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
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Total Voters: 34

Author Topic: Will Healthcare be the biggest issue in the Democratic primaries?  (Read 1704 times)
7,052,770
Harry
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« on: May 11, 2018, 04:54:46 PM »

Supporting single payer is definitely the biggest issue for the Bernie wing. Even more moderate candidates like Kamala Harris have come out in favor of Medicare For All.

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Are you trolling or just that clueless?
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7,052,770
Harry
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Posts: 35,716
Ukraine


« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2018, 07:56:18 PM »

Supporting single payer is definitely the biggest issue for the Bernie wing. Even more moderate candidates like Kamala Harris have come out in favor of Medicare For All.

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Are you trolling or just that clueless?

Are you mentally handicapped or do you not realize that Kamala Harris is more moderate than the Bernie wing?

Harris is consistently ranked as one of the absolute most progressive senators by every ranking system out there, sometimes as high as #1. She's not just in the Bernie wing, she's one of the most progressive members of it.
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7,052,770
Harry
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Posts: 35,716
Ukraine


« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2018, 12:28:49 PM »

I don't what rankings you are referring to, but the word progressive means different things to different people. And LOL at referring to the woman who refused to prosecute Steve Mnuchin and called for weaker body camera regulations as part of the Bernie wing. Her half hearted endorsements of progressive ideas on healthcare and college (which she never mentions again after the initial photo op) don't make her a genuine progressive.

Cherry pick single issues if you want, but every ranking system out there that aggregates all of politicians' positions have Harris at the far left of U.S. Senators. I trust actual data way more than random Atlas posters' feelings, that's for sure.
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7,052,770
Harry
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Posts: 35,716
Ukraine


« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2018, 02:20:41 PM »

I don't what rankings you are referring to, but the word progressive means different things to different people. And LOL at referring to the woman who refused to prosecute Steve Mnuchin and called for weaker body camera regulations as part of the Bernie wing. Her half hearted endorsements of progressive ideas on healthcare and college (which she never mentions again after the initial photo op) don't make her a genuine progressive.

Cherry pick single issues if you want, but every ranking system out there that aggregates all of politicians' positions have Harris at the far left of U.S. Senators. I trust actual data way more than random Atlas posters' feelings, that's for sure.

Once again, you have to define far left. I see no evidence whatsoever that she belongs in the Bernie wing, nor have I seen anyone associate her with it. The Bernie wing doesn't refer to those who take the "far left" position on most issues, for example Bernie is more moderate on guns than many Democratic Senators.

It's a part of the party focused on very specific issues, such as getting money out of politics, ending foreign intervention, making healthcare and college a right. Kamala just recently said "it depends" on whether she would take corporate money, then had to backtrack after the backlash. She's not in the Bernie wing.

Harris agrees with Bernie on all 4 of those issues, and Bernie agrees with her on guns.
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7,052,770
Harry
Atlas Superstar
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Posts: 35,716
Ukraine


« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2018, 02:49:04 PM »

I don't "think" anything about whether Harris is a hardcore progressive or a Blue Dog, nor do I particularly care. I probably won't vote for her in the primaries, although I reserve the right to, and since I'm not a self-centered brat, I'll be voting for the Democratic nominee no matter what.

All I'm saying is that every statistical analysis out there places her as one of the most liberal/progressive Senators (as high as #1 on Progressive Punch), as well as consistently right next to Bernie. If you're looking for a current senator or presidential candidate to declare as a moderate in opposition to the "Bernie wing," Harris is a particularly poor choice.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ideological+rankings+of+u+s+senators
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7,052,770
Harry
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 35,716
Ukraine


« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2018, 07:21:24 PM »

I don't what rankings you are referring to, but the word progressive means different things to different people. And LOL at referring to the woman who refused to prosecute Steve Mnuchin and called for weaker body camera regulations as part of the Bernie wing. Her half hearted endorsements of progressive ideas on healthcare and college (which she never mentions again after the initial photo op) don't make her a genuine progressive.

Cherry pick single issues if you want, but every ranking system out there that aggregates all of politicians' positions have Harris at the far left of U.S. Senators. I trust actual data way more than random Atlas posters' feelings, that's for sure.

Aren't DW-Nominate scores and the like based on numbers of yeas/nays relative to partisan skews? So if Harris overwhelmingly votes against Trump/GOP (which she does), she'd have a high aggregate "liberal" score. That doesn't mean that the things she's actually voting on are particularly far left.

There are probably other scoring systems that do this "better", but the same general critique applies to everything that relies on a spatial model of political behavior - who's to say what's more liberal of, say, the healthcare systems of Switzerland, Canada, and France? How do you quantify that?

TL;DR: Boiling down lawmakers' (or voters') political beliefs into an ideal point isn't a good indicator of anything IMO

There are a lot of different methods out there, some like you described and some not. I'm not insisting that Harris has to be #1 like Progressive Punch says or anything like that -- I just took great issue with the OP deciding to namedrop Kamala Harris of all people as a "moderate" in opposition to Bernie when every piece of objective data out there says she has a voting record very similar to his.

It's fine for the OP or whoever else not to like her. (As long as they do some introspection and make sure that implicit gender racial bias are not driving their opinion.) But labeling her as something she's not is out of line.
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