Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/alexeyguzey/status/1497774158578548738

These are the types of tragic stories that will hopefully lead to Putin losing support amongst the Russian public.

 They will be hushed up by Russian state media, and only that poor conscripts family family and friends will know the truth. Is word-of-mouth from them and other Families who lose soldiers won't be nearly enough too counter the government's propaganda machine.

[Badger]

Please continue to waste your ammo on soviet era static displays:

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1497831574116651008?s=20&t=pF4iPS7...

 These videos should have yakkity sax (aka the Benny Hill theme) playing as a soundtrack.

[Badger]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Judo/status/1497875171008516105

As a former judoka myself, this development is personally gratifying.

[Badger]

The only way Turkey closes the Bosphorus would be if they feel Russia is too weak/preoccupied to force the strait to reopen:

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1498038656875081740?s=20&t=p7zLIjGZr...

Huge news.
My guess is that Erdogan saw this as a chance to beef up his NATO credentials and win support in Ukraine, and on a personal level he probably dislikes what is going on in Ukraine as well. So he's closing the straits, to take a big step in favor of his NATO allies.
He knows Russia can't afford war with Turkey right now.
It's also worth noting that sentiments in the Arab World and wide sections of the Muslim world in general are broadly pro-Ukraine, and that in Turkey, the specific issue of the Crimea Tatars is not at all forgotten.
Many Ukrainians study in Egypt, and Ukrainians are surprisingly involved with the Muslim world more broadly.
There's also the very long history of adversarial relations between Turkey and Russia to consider here.

Important correction, Tim. Edrogan knows Russia can't afford war with NATO right now.

[Badger]

I assume this means the Russians have brought out the thermobarics, this is gonna get real nasty.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1498037904496418817?s=20&t=06qxSG-uBQZFA...

It looks like an atomic bomb was deployed. The US and NATO have an obligation to wipe Russia off the face of the earth if that is the case.

I'm almost certain that isn't the case. The explosion that resulted from a missile hitting a pipeline in Kyiv yesterday looked really similar to this, and I'm confident we're seeing the same here.

Yeah. It looks more like the missile that hit Kyiv yesterday. On a side note, my Iranian American friend who I mentioned in the compucomp opinion of thread is thrilled that Putin invaded Ukraine and she keeps sending me pro-Putin propaganda in Facebook and Instagram messenger. She wants Russia, Iran, and China to conquer all of Ukraine and then go into Europe and conquer all the countries there.

Have you told her that’s not going to happen?

 Your friend  Needs to see you next Tuesday, if you get my drift.

[Badger]

What is happening now in Ukraine is the genocide of the Ukrainian people. If we talk about me, everything is calm in my region, except for the shelling of military units. I have now signed up for territorial defense and am preparing to defend my country

God bless you, you brave Patriot.

 Your courage puts to shame every " I'm not saying I support the invasion, I'm just saying we have to take a more neutral and nuanced approach towards Hitler's territorial claims in Poland"  apologist ****** on this forum. Let alone the few bona fide Putin toadies whom deserve far worse than contempt.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1499679745012871171?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ct...

 Was  Discussed and rejected For obvious reasons.

[Badger]

Belarusian Forces Will Not Take Part in Ukraine War, Lukashenko Says

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Belarusian leader Alexander Lukashenko said on Friday that the Belarusian armed forces were not taking part and would not take part in Russia's military operation in Ukraine.

A close Russian ally, Lukashenko said he spoke to President Vladimir Putin at length by telephone on Friday. Russia has used Belarusian territory to carry out a multi-pronged invasion of Ukraine.

Excellent news!  As probably substandard as the military there is, that was the last thing the Ukraine needed.

[Badger]

Putin will be a DEAD MAN walking once the United States has a Republican President in 2025. Given the Comments made by Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina there is every indication once the US switches Power to a Republican President that President could then authorize a Special Operation just like Obama did with Bin Laden in 2010 to capture or kill Putin.

Remember: Soft Joe Biden was even against capturing or killing Bin Laden in 2010 and Obama had to overrule him!

 Is what a brain dead post  Considering Biden has done everything conceivable to support the Ukraine aggressively with arms and diplomatic and economic support, while the Republican party has assiduously backed a guy who  Not only made Shipment of arms to the Ukraine contingent upon Digging up dirt on his political rival, but praised Putin not only throughout his administration for 4 years but even the day before the invasion is to what a smart and tough guy he has.

Soft Joe Biden my a**. Do you think before you post? Do you think ever? Stop hacking you hack.

[Badger]

Thoughts?

Biden's Bold Gamble Might Just Save Ukraine | Opinion

 Obviously untrue! Fox News has said this is all because Joe Biden is president! Plus beep boop Has ever so brilliantly pointed out that this wouldn't have happened if Mike Pompeo was Secretary of State because the Secretary of State truly guides blah blah blah beep beep beep beep beep 001101101

[Badger]

I lean towards No on this (while being persuadable to support Yes). The only way this will work is if Russia literally cannot find a place to sell its oil. And I doubt that is possible.
The intentions of such moves are noble, but these are likely to marginally increase American oil and gas prices without costing the Russians enough to justify the reduction in supply diversification. Gas is already, what, 4 dollars a galloon? And when you get past the feel-good statements on part of corporate America on this issue, this WILL likely result in higher prices for the common man in this country at the gas pump.
Just because something is a sanction doesn't mean it's worthy to do. Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something. Let's not fetishize action at the expense of effective policy.

 Of course they will find some place to sell some of theor oil. No one's believing that there will be a 100% worldwide embargo on Russian oil and gas. The point is obvious supply and demand. The demand for Russian gas and oil decreases dramatically, that f**** Putin  Tremendously.

China is right now for example buying all the gas and oil it needs from Russia. It's suddenly not going to buy more gas and oil that it doesn't need, and neither are most other countries, to take up the slack.

[Badger]

I lean towards No on this (while being persuadable to support Yes). The only way this will work is if Russia literally cannot find a place to sell its oil. And I doubt that is possible.
The intentions of such moves are noble, but these are likely to marginally increase American oil and gas prices without costing the Russians enough to justify the reduction in supply diversification. Gas is already, what, 4 dollars a galloon? And when you get past the feel-good statements on part of corporate America on this issue, this WILL likely result in higher prices for the common man in this country at the gas pump.
Just because something is a sanction doesn't mean it's worthy to do. Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something. Let's not fetishize action at the expense of effective policy.

 Of course they will find some place to sell some of the Royal. No one's believing that there will be a 100% worldwide it blockade or a bargo on Russian oil and gas. The point is obvious supply and demand. The demand for Russian gas and oil decreases dramatically, that f**** Putin  Tremendously. China is right now for example buying all the gas and oil it needs from Russia. It's suddenly not going to buy more gas and oil that it doesn't need, and neither are most other countries, to take up the slack.

There's a LOT of potential and contemporary oil and gas consumers in the Third World.
I think for this to really work, we need the support of the Arab World. Otherwise, Putin can sell oil to Arab governments and then they can de facto circumvent the sanctions.

 And those 3rd world consumers are already purchasing gas and oil at the levels they need. Yes, theoretically some countries could buy up access Russia Russian gas at a cut throat low price, but who is really ready to do that? Mark Eritrea? North Korea?? And the rock bottom price Russia would have to sell it at is is going to further seriously harm Russia's bankroll.

[Badger]

I lean towards No on this (while being persuadable to support Yes). The only way this will work is if Russia literally cannot find a place to sell its oil. And I doubt that is possible.
The intentions of such moves are noble, but these are likely to marginally increase American oil and gas prices without costing the Russians enough to justify the reduction in supply diversification. Gas is already, what, 4 dollars a galloon? And when you get past the feel-good statements on part of corporate America on this issue, this WILL likely result in higher prices for the common man in this country at the gas pump.
Just because something is a sanction doesn't mean it's worthy to do. Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something. Let's not fetishize action at the expense of effective policy.

 Of course they will find some place to sell some of the Royal. No one's believing that there will be a 100% worldwide it blockade or a bargo on Russian oil and gas. The point is obvious supply and demand. The demand for Russian gas and oil decreases dramatically, that f**** Putin  Tremendously. China is right now for example buying all the gas and oil it needs from Russia. It's suddenly not going to buy more gas and oil that it doesn't need, and neither are most other countries, to take up the slack.

There's a LOT of potential and contemporary oil and gas consumers in the Third World.
I think for this to really work, we need the support of the Arab World. Otherwise, Putin can sell oil to Arab governments and then they can de facto circumvent the sanctions.

 And those 3rd world consumers are already purchasing gas and oil at the levels they need. Yes, theoretically some countries could buy up access Russia Russian gas at a cut throat low price, but who is really ready to do that? Mark Eritrea? North Korea?? And the rock bottom price Russia would have to sell it at is is going to further seriously harm Russia's bankroll.

These (oil-importing) third world countries would be signing up for de facto economic warfare against themselves if they were going to go along with sanctions on Russian oil, and what's more, some of them have long bought Russian. Russian oil being in the mix impacts supply and demand. Oil imports getting more expensive would be taxing to these countries.

The long-term costs of a sanction of Russian oil and gas would likely be met in significant part by Western consumers. Yes the Russians would pay a significant cost, and it's not necessarily insane economically for America, but sanctions of this sort are likely not territory that is economical in the long-run.

We actually help our ability to help Ukraine if we only do what is economical anyway.

 You are missing the point. No one is talking about a worldwide embargo on Russian oil and gas. That would be great to come up with no 1 is expecting that period we're talking about Is an American embargo on Russian oil and gas. You see, Russia has a tremendous amount of financial investment in their oil and gas exportation. So if it is reduced, and there are not going to be other people buying as much, then Russia makes less money. There won't be magically other people to buy oil at the same price should we induce such an embargo.

[Badger]

I lean towards No on this (while being persuadable to support Yes). The only way this will work is if Russia literally cannot find a place to sell its oil. And I doubt that is possible.
The intentions of such moves are noble, but these are likely to marginally increase American oil and gas prices without costing the Russians enough to justify the reduction in supply diversification. Gas is already, what, 4 dollars a galloon? And when you get past the feel-good statements on part of corporate America on this issue, this WILL likely result in higher prices for the common man in this country at the gas pump.
Just because something is a sanction doesn't mean it's worthy to do. Sometimes doing nothing is better than doing something. Let's not fetishize action at the expense of effective policy.

 Of course they will find some place to sell some of the Royal. No one's believing that there will be a 100% worldwide it blockade or a bargo on Russian oil and gas. The point is obvious supply and demand. The demand for Russian gas and oil decreases dramatically, that f**** Putin  Tremendously. China is right now for example buying all the gas and oil it needs from Russia. It's suddenly not going to buy more gas and oil that it doesn't need, and neither are most other countries, to take up the slack.

There's a LOT of potential and contemporary oil and gas consumers in the Third World.
I think for this to really work, we need the support of the Arab World. Otherwise, Putin can sell oil to Arab governments and then they can de facto circumvent the sanctions.

 And those 3rd world consumers are already purchasing gas and oil at the levels they need. Yes, theoretically some countries could buy up access Russia Russian gas at a cut throat low price, but who is really ready to do that? Mark Eritrea? North Korea?? And the rock bottom price Russia would have to sell it at is is going to further seriously harm Russia's bankroll.

These (oil-importing) third world countries would be signing up for de facto economic warfare against themselves if they were going to go along with sanctions on Russian oil, and what's more, some of them have long bought Russian. Russian oil being in the mix impacts supply and demand. Oil imports getting more expensive would be taxing to these countries.

The long-term costs of a sanction of Russian oil and gas would likely be met in significant part by Western consumers. Yes the Russians would pay a significant cost, and it's not necessarily insane economically for America, but sanctions of this sort are likely not territory that is economical in the long-run.

We actually help our ability to help Ukraine if we only do what is economical anyway.

 You are missing the point. No one is talking about a worldwide embargo on Russian oil and gas. That would be great to come up with no 1 is expecting that period we're talking about Is an American embargo on Russian oil and gas. You see, Russia has a tremendous amount of financial investment in their oil and gas exportation. So if it is reduced, and there are not going to be other people buying as much, then Russia makes less money. There won't be magically other people to buy oil at the same price should we induce such an embargo.

For this sort of thing, I'm inclined to go big or go home. It's a largely meaningless gesture that on net taxes Americans marginally, IF this is a US-only thing. The zeitgeist is already making it sort of done anyway, as corporate America has decided to virtue-signal once again and they benefit from higher prices from the exclusion of Russian oil and gas from the market. The major markets for Russia aren't in America anyway, they are elsewhere. (Like India, I would assume)

snip

Is Russia a comparatively large oil and gas supplier to the US? I assumed not. I had not looked at statistics.
Had to look it up.
Russia supplies 7 percent of our imported oil. That's not a lot. It's even less considering that a huge chunk of our oil is domestic and not foreign. But let's not try to tell ourselves that banning Russian oil will do much for Ukraine at all.

What Ukraine most needs is stability in Eastern Europe so that it's not borderlands for west-east conflict (if possible), and what it does not need is to be a warzone.

I favor big, grand gambits and even-handed compromises to entrench a status quo that will leave Ukraine in peace and allow us to focus on countering China in a reasoned way. But as a pragmatist I can see why politicians would favor something quick and easy, something that virtue signals but barely changes a thing, over something that does more profound and lasting change but might be quite hard.

I stand by my words about fetishizing action in policy being an unideal thing from a policy standpoint. There are indeed times when doing nothing is the best approach, when things not done is just as important to boosting one's position than things that are done.
EDIT: I was however massive wrong about Indian oil imports. Only 2 percent of India's oil is imported from Russia. Comes to show this is an area my knowledge is relatively weaker in.

 No one is claiming that there is a single magic wand, including Is the US  Is cutting off Russian oil and gas to solve this matter. As a small business person, if I lose a client that is 7% of my yearly intake, that is a major kick in the balls. And a friend of that 7% client follows suit, that's additional kick in the balls.

We get it. You have an America first isolation as policy policy that would rather not raise the price of the pump 50 cents a gallon then help the Ukrainian people. Whom, I might add, are the ones saying dear God please help us by imposing this embargo.

You can't have as both ways. You can't on the one hand claim thatSuch an embargo is going to do terrible things to Joe consumer at the pump, and yet simultaneously claimed that it's a fart  In a whirlwind that won't effectively hit rushes natural resources economy.

[Badger]

snip
All war crimes great and small,
Good people condemn them all.

“Both sides” assholes can f*** off and die.

There must be a special place in hell for Putin.

 This. and this goes equally so for the "I'm just a neutral and think we have to be nuanced in our approach here!1!!" dunderheads.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1500909383491936261

Really doesn’t look like it’ll go anywhere soon. Various Polish officials hum and haw but their Prime Minister (not the President) keeps saying no. Psaki talks up the Biden administration’s work on the matter while suggesting it’s incredibly complicated: https://www.twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1500929211254640648
NATO seems kind of dysfunctional. You have to wonder if an invocation of Article 5 would be first met by days of legalistic deliberation over what it really meant in context.

 It's simultaneously complicated and simple. The US wants to ship Ukraine fighter planes from Poland, but Poland doesn't want to have itself be the staging point for the Planes delivery,  likely fearing that Russia will retaliate with bombings if not invasion.

Wondering if Slovakia, hungry, and/or Romania all might be alternatives for NATO warplane deliveries?

[Badger]

As much as Russians are suffering from the effects of sanctions, they can still take solace in McDonalds (for now):

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1500954446066593794

But can they still eat at Pizza Hut? Asking the real questions here....

 PepsiCo sold it and it's other fast food chains like Taco Bell and KFC  Almost a quarter century ago

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1500909383491936261

Really doesn’t look like it’ll go anywhere soon. Various Polish officials hum and haw but their Prime Minister (not the President) keeps saying no. Psaki talks up the Biden administration’s work on the matter while suggesting it’s incredibly complicated: https://www.twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1500929211254640648
NATO seems kind of dysfunctional. You have to wonder if an invocation of Article 5 would be first met by days of legalistic deliberation over what it really meant in context.

 It's simultaneously complicated and simple. The US wants to ship Ukraine fighter planes from Holand, but Holand doesn't want to have itself be the staging point for the Planes delivery,  Is likely fearing that Russia will retaliate wis talliate with bombings if not invasion.

Wondering if Slovakia, hungry, and/or Romania all might be alternatives for NATO warplane deliveries?

It's not so simple to me - the direct threat seems empty. Poland is shipping in lethal aid already in sums that exceed the financial (though perhaps not the strategic) value of the planes. It can send in the planes without weapons attached (as Romania did) to avoid being brought into the war.* IIRC there is quite a lot of Cold War precedent here.

Maybe they are worried that sending in such large equipment will result in Lviv/the border regions inside Ukraine being bombed to disrupt supplies, but if Ukraine holds out long enough without the extra aircraft, Russia is likely to consider disrupting its supplies anyway. One way to dissuade Russia from doing this is to give Ukraine a better airforce and air defences, so that the RuAF does not feel confident it can make lots of airstrikes in the west of the country.

*What it can't do, in this case, is avoid drawing Russia's ire. It won't start a war, but it will put Poland in Putin's crosshairs if/when Russia wins in Ukraine. Russia could try to punish Poland in many ways without starting a war (it could stop selling them energy, for instance), and if they take Ukraine, they might be able to go further by funding criminals/insurgents to cause trouble on Poland's border. This would be a very risky move on Russia's part, though, and I'm not sure it would be feasibly considered by anyone.

 You are preaching to the choir about why it is crucial to do this Ando this and how I personally am hoping poland will ultimately play ball. I think you're 2nd paragraph correctly identifies the Polish  Concerns. In terms of intrusiveness into the Ukraine, and especially in terms of how much fighter jets can tip the balance away from the Russians as opposed to even anti tank and anti air missiles, the ship in a fighter jet becomes substantially potentially more of a gamble for Poland, ,  Even if I agree with your assessment as to why it is in their long term interests

[Badger]

As much as Russians are suffering from the effects of sanctions, they can still take solace in McDonalds (for now):

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1500954446066593794

 I just wrote an email to the customer service Addresses for PepsiCo and McDonald's McDonald's, readily available at the respective websites. Any advice that although my family uses their products regularly come out we henceforth will cease to do so, as Well As members of our small business, until until they pull out of Russia while Ukraine is under attack, like other companies such as Microsoft and Coca-Cola.

As I stated in each, if Ukrainians can soldier on without heat, electricity, running water, or food, let alone the knowledge that they or their family members won't be killed by indiscriminate rushing bombing and rocket attacks, that I can live without my beloved Doritos/quarter pounders for as long as necessary.

IConcluded my email to Pepsi CO by saying ""Coke did the right thing here. When will you?"

And for those of you taking the "boycott never work" stance, keep in mind that Coke was resisting calls for divestment as well but flipped in response to public pressure in just the last couple days.

[Badger]

Could Putin use the WNBA star as a bargaining chip with the US?

Is she even worth anything?  Her income is derived from the charity that the male basketball players generate by being talented entertainers while the entirety of WNBA is loses huge sums of money to produce their farce of season.  She's widely hated by the fans for her sexually abusive comments, and her ludicrous claims of victimhood cause society doesn't see it fit to let her steal more money from the guys that earn it.  

But seriously, they'll get her back in exchange for something valuable.  Trump could probably get ungrateful butt back quickly.  

The WNBA sucks, sure,  but per usual your posts display so many clear….." Underlying issues " beyond the topic at hand.

[Badger]

AP reports McDonald’s Temporarily Closing 850 Restaurants in Russia

This is actually a great opportunity for Russian copycats of McDonald’s.  The PRC has tons of McDonald’s and KFC copycats.

Yes, and we're sure that you will jump in on this exciting new money making venture if given the opportunity.

Anyway, I will now accept my accolades.

As much as Russians are suffering from the effects of sanctions, they can still take solace in McDonalds (for now):

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1500954446066593794

 I just wrote an email to the customer service Addresses for PepsiCo and McDonald's, readily available at the respective websites. I advised that although my family uses their products regularly come out we henceforth will cease to do so, as Well As members of our small business, until they pull out of Russia while Ukraine is under attack, like other companies such as Microsoft and Coca-Cola.

As I stated in each, if Ukrainians can soldier on without heat, electricity, running water, or food, let alone the knowledge that they or their family members won't be killed by indiscriminate rushing bombing and rocket attacks, that I can live without my beloved Doritos/quarter pounders for as long as necessary.

And for those of you taking the "boycotts never work" stance, keep in mind that Coke was resisting calls for divestment as well but flipped in response to public pressure in just the last couple days.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/idreesali114/status/1501299320590458880

lol, Pepsi was waiting to see what Coke did.

https://twitter.com/idreesali114/status/1501303123788378116

Once again, I shall accept my accolades.  Another corporate giant culled into  Responsible action through my acid pen!

As much as Russians are suffering from the effects of sanctions, they can still take solace in McDonalds (for now):

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1500954446066593794

 I just wrote an email to the customer service Addresses for PepsiCo and McDonald's McDonald's, readily available at the respective websites. Any advice that although my family uses their products regularly come out we henceforth will cease to do so, as Well As members of our small business, until until they pull out of Russia while Ukraine is under attack, like other companies such as Microsoft and Coca-Cola.

As I stated in each, if Ukrainians can soldier on without heat, electricity, running water, or food, let alone the knowledge that they or their family members won't be killed by indiscriminate rushing bombing and rocket attacks, that I can live without my beloved Doritos/quarter pounders for as long as necessary.

IConcluded my email to Pepsi CO by saying ""Coke did the right thing here. When will you?"

And for those of you taking the "boycott never work" stance, keep in mind that Coke was resisting calls for divestment as well but flipped in response to public pressure in just the last couple days.

[Badger]

Big if true:
https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/1501268895939837954?s=20&t=1pWaBeP...

This should be common sense.

Imagine your neighbor's house is on fire.

You should try to help put out the fire before it spreads to your house.

 It's a little more complicated and dangerous than that for Holand. A better analogy would be if your neighbors  House is on fire in the gang of arsonist just who set the fire are still there stoking it, and you might have fear that they'll get p***** off if you're trying to put out your neighbor's fire is at your house on fire as well.

So yeah, kudos for Poland taking this step

[Badger]

If you are curious on how the Russians made large advances on the first days of the war in the Southern Front then this article partly explains it. There's no denying Zelensky's heroism but Ukraine could have prepared for it better.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/world/europe/ukraine-beats-russia-mykolaiv.html

Despite near-frantic warnings from the White House of an imminent Russian invasion in the weeks before it actually happened on Feb. 24, the initial attack took Colonel Stetsenko’s unit by surprise, he said. His brigade was at a training exercise near the border with Crimea outside a town called Oleshky and only half assembled when it received the order to prepare for battle.

“If we had received the order three or four days before, we could have prepared, dug trenches,” he said.

That delay nearly led to his brigade’s destruction in the first hours of the war, he said.

The Russian force that poured out of Crimea was five times the size of his Ukrainian unit and quickly overwhelmed it. His brigade had no air support and few functional antiaircraft systems, because most had been sent to Kyiv to defend the capital. Much of the brigade’s tanks and armored fighting vehicles were destroyed in the initial attack by Russian aviation.

The brigade’s commander, Col. Oleksandr Vinogradov, had lost touch with military leadership and was forced to make decisions on the fly, said Colonel Stetsenko, who was with the commander throughout. Encircled and suffering heavy losses from strikes by Russian fighter jets, Colonel Vinogradov ordered his remaining tank and artillery units to punch a hole through a unit of Russian airborne assault troops that had positioned itself at the Ukrainian brigade’s rear.

The maneuver allowed the main Ukrainian fighting force to cross a bridge over the Dnieper River and retreat west about 45 miles to Mykolaiv, where it could regroup and link up with other units to continue the fight.

“The fighter jets of the enemy attacked our tanks, several tanks were hit and burned, and the rest remained and did not flee,” Colonel Stetsenko said. “They knew that behind them were other people, and they gave up their lives to break through the bridge to dig in on the other bank.”

The tactic worked, but the costs were steep. By falling back to Mykolaiv, Colonel Stetsenko’s brigade had to sacrifice Kherson, which on March 2 became the first major city to fall to the Russian forces. They had no choice, Colonel Stetsenko said. If they had tried to defend Kherson, Russian forces could have flanked them and cut them off, opening a road to the west, and to Odessa.

 Yeah, zalensky has been a great leader since the war started, but let's please quit this discussion about him being one of the great leaders ever. He had a real  Streak of Chamberlain in him until until the Russians actually  Invaded.

[Badger]

The Chamberlain who declared war on Hitler in 1939?

Yes, the appeasement PM whose policies failed, that one.