COVID-19 Megathread 5: The Trumps catch COVID-19

[Badger]

The government should allow people to break stay at home and social distancing orders if they're willing to get MUH CONSTITUTION tattooed on their foreheads in black ink. The rest of us will be able to visually identify high risk potential spreaders and the anti-lockdown nuts can have their freedom. Everybody wins. Problem solved.

EDIT - Businesses will also be able to refuse service to MUH CONSTITUTION forehead people, on the grounds that they are displaying official government documentation that they are a high risk potential spreader during a pandemic.

Why not have compliant individuals have SLAVE tattooed on their forehead?

LMFAO, I just pictured some white middle aged public servant with PPE explaining to some Harlem black guys that the government will leave them alone if they will just agree to get SLAVE tattooed on their foreheads. That's gonna end well.

Seriously though, if you want special privileges, you get "special privileges" identification.  This is how concerts and sporting events work with VIP individuals. You don't make the huge crowd of the non-VIPs all carry "non-VIP" identification.

Non-compliant "persons" are not important, let along very important, and it is questionable whether they are even persons.

Those with the SLAVE tattoo will know they are children of the State, and the governor loves them just as much as her own children.

Get help.

[Badger]

Not wearing masks and going back to" normal" can still "Kill grandma" if the irresponsible behavior causes hospitals to become overwhelmed.

Avoiding overcrowding the hospitals isn't a static goal. We've avoided it thus far, but if people just go back to life like normal, cases will begin multiplying at an exponential rate once again and thus overwhelm hospitals (even though they are now prepared now) and cause grandma to die because she had a stroke and there weren't any available ICU rooms. If we reopen slowly, continue using masks, and are cautious, we can keep the R value low while getting people back to work.

This isn't just a "yay we did it and now we're done" thing. Is we're going to use the stupid war symbolism, this is a war of attrition and we're under siege. If we go back to living like normal, the siege will be effective and starve us. If we stick with rationing, we can outlast this thing until reinforcements arrive. It's not fun, but it's effective and we have above evidence that it's working.

I saw (but unfortunately can't find to properly credit) another siege analogy some time ago that I think fits a bit better. We've shut the gates just in front of the arriving hordes. Some people are calling for the gates to be opened, because if they don't go out and harvest their fields they're going to lose money. They are arguing that the barbarians haven't killed many people in the last couple of weeks, so they can't be that dangerous. They are ignoring that they haven't killed many because the city walls are keeping everyone safe.

Yes, staying holed up in the city means we starve eventually. We're going to be pretty hungry if we wait for the relief forces/vaccine. That said, we should be taking some time to make weapons and train our troops, scout out where the barbarians are encamped. Once we've done that we can venture out to places we know are relatively safe or that we can defend. Throwing open the gates without those preparations is inviting disaster.

Welcome, and please post far more often.

[Badger]

In the latter case, the population would eventually reach a state of herd immunity.  And I agree that it's likely a vaccine will take less than 18 months.  But you still haven't explained why wearing a mask is a waste of your life.

Constant wearing of masks impedes social interaction, speech, and breathing.

Yeah, that totally equates wasting your life.

Equal parts gross selfishness and gross irresponsibility. Kudos indeed.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1261267252365623297

Ironic, as Lancet is inserting themselves into politics with this statement, while their authority comes from sticking to science. While I agree with this statement, they should focus on publishing papers and leave it to Joe Biden to make the case against Trump.

Or rather, is it just telling that it's gotten so so bad with Trump trying to play  Nero 2.0 that even the Lancet has to wade into politics?

[Badger]

Yeah, that totally equates wasting your life.

Equal parts gross selfishness and gross irresponsibility. Kudos indeed.

Then what about the WHO recommendations?

Yippy skippy. The Centers for Disease Control recommend wearing them.

The bigger issue here is that your rather overblown sentiment that wearing a mask equates somehow "wasting your life" demonstrates a continually shocking level of self-absorption.

Seriously though, you've done a great job these past couple months in demonstrating that whack jobs and conspiracy theorists regarding the coronavirus and anti contagion measures not entirely confined to the right wing.

[Badger]

Yippy skippy. The Centers for Disease Control recommend wearing them.

After the CDC rejected the WHO's tests and used its own botched tests instead, I don't place very much faith in the CDC.

I just love how instead of making sure we had enough tests, everyone just resorted to authoritarian measures instead.

Just like the right-wingers you usually rail on about, you have a tough time distinguishing "authoritarianism" from "inconvenience".

[Badger]

Darwin award nominee.

https://twitter.com/jaredlholt/status/1261296078969847808

I started to feel sympathy for her for a minute despite her stupidity. And then I thought about how many dozens of people she may have infected at that Supermarket, either through direct contact or contact with food later purchased by others.

This isn't just a self own. She's exhibit a why not to reopen too quickly, and why the protesters are morons.

[Badger]

Just like the right-wingers you usually rail on about, you have a tough time distinguishing "authoritarianism" from "inconvenience".

Eighteen months is more than just an "inconvenience."

Debatable semantics. Regardless, it's a damn sight closer to inconvenience than so-called authoritarianism.

[Badger]

Yippy skippy. The Centers for Disease Control recommend wearing them.

After the CDC rejected the WHO's tests and used its own botched tests instead, I don't place very much faith in the CDC.

I just love how instead of making sure we had enough tests, everyone just resorted to authoritarian measures instead.

The WHO is a puppet of the Chinese government.

Citation needed.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1261787286368186369

Although I think the Wisconsin Supreme Court's decision was unlawful and idiotic to boot, In fairness I'm not sure if these two are related. It takes generally a week or two from first infection before 1 exhibits symptoms, which is the most likely precursor to getting tested. Most of the people who rushed out right after the decision are probably just now starting to develop symptoms and thinking about getting tested in the next couple days.

Anyone feel free to correct me though if they have different information.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/cherylbolen/status/1262479713030803458

Has he tested positive and is concealing it?

 I don't see any way that a White House doctor would prescribe him this for no reason at all.

Do you remember Trump's personal doctor? I firmly believe he would obtain and procure shot glasses of stem cells if his number one client demanded it.

[Badger]

Actually, this would explain a lot:

https://twitter.com/michelleinbklyn/status/1262496219194064902

Low hanging fruit I know, but which of these symptoms did Trump not already fully demonstrate even prior to the outbreak?

[Badger]

A small-town weekly newspaper in rural southern Minnesota is trying to convince county and town officials to fly the flag upside-down because their "constitu­tional rights are presently being denied by Minnesota’s Stay at Home order."

"Fly Flag Upside Down"

The editorial actually references Bill Gates, and refers to the virus as "the Chinese Communist Party coronavirus". LOL!

God bless the First Amendment, and its protection of every loon who wants to get a sounding board for their craziness and call it a newspaper.

[Badger]

I would prefer if they talked about more than just one restaurant to support this claim, but I don't have a hard time believing it.

Wouldn't be surprised. When the state stores in Pennsylvania were closed pennsylvanians near the Ohio border flocked to our state stores. It got so bad we had to put a requirement of having a valid Ohio driver's license to purchase booze.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1262575447134568448

This is a good point.  I think we could reach a status quo where the smaller types of gatherings are mostly open (with some precautions) while large gatherings such as sporting events are still a no-no until a vaccine is available.

Concerts are a no no, but sporting events could reduce capacity and seal off some seats in an irregular pattern to create some distance while also allowing fans to attend.

Except seating isn't even half the issue. You got queuing up in ticket and admission lines, contact whatever people leave their seats, waiting in concession stand lines, going to the restroom, Etc. Not to mention the price per seat when only one seat every 6 ft is for sale is going to be astronomical. I'm not that interested in reopening sporting events to put the maintenance staff Health at risk for increasingly wealthy fans to be able to watch live.

I'm not saying any solution has to be foolproof, but this one is full of major problems.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/IanSams/status/1263465850813677571

Wow. The 27% of Republicans is especially surprising.

If this poll is even partially true than Trump is in a very, very, very weak position.

Meh. Nearly all of those Republicans will come home by November because even a president do bumbles something leading to the avoidable additional deaths of tens of thousands of Americans is preferable to having - - gasp! - - a democrat in the White House. Because socialism, abortion, and black lives matters. Plus something something Tara reade.

Call that overly partisan if you want, but in the four years since Trump announced his candidacy that has been Time After Time repeatedly, empirically proven Beyond any Shadow of Doubt. Sure it's horrific, but it's also painfully true.

[Badger]

I mean, what the actual f**k

https://twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1264978727416578048

This reinforces every known stereotype about NASCAR fans.

[Badger]

And no, opposition to the lockdown orders is not merely confined to "Republicans" or to the "right". Even many left-leaning types and "Democrats" have become increasingly skeptical in recent weeks, and have disagreed with many of the actions which have been implemented.

I think it's no longer left versus right, but authoritarians (particularly the media) versus the rank-and-file.

Can't say I agree Calthrina. I'm a newsworthy level I can't think of even a relatively minor Democrat or other liberal expressing from criticism or even suspicions about the continued lockdown orders. Anecdotally at least, Bandit is the only leftist on Atlas Tua firmly expressed opposition Raven skepticism, and he's frankly always been a fringe type even around here.

 what are you basing your opinion on?

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1269283042687725569

Literally. No. Bottom.

[Badger]

Another look at the jobs currently lost

This is already shaping up to be worse than the Great Depression. If action isn’t taken soon, the strings connecting this country could snap.

Hispanic women have been hit hardest by job losses. Maybe Joe Biden should pick a Hispanic woman as VP. The Democrats have never had a Hispanic candidate on the ticket. It would be groundbreaking.

No, Democrats are going to pick a black woman and ignore Hispanic voters yet again. Sadly, a Hispanic Woman is probably the best shot for Biden.

SMC is the only vaguely viable option in that regard, and having served in the US Senate for less than two years that's sketchy.

[Badger]

Another look at the jobs currently lost

This is already shaping up to be worse than the Great Depression. If action isn’t taken soon, the strings connecting this country could snap.

Hispanic women have been hit hardest by job losses. Maybe Joe Biden should pick a Hispanic woman as VP. The Democrats have never had a Hispanic candidate on the ticket. It would be groundbreaking.

No, Democrats are going to pick a black woman and ignore Hispanic voters yet again. Sadly, a Hispanic Woman is probably the best shot for Biden.

SMC is the only vaguely viable option in that regard, and having served in the US Senate for less than two years that's sketchy.

Who tha heck?

Can’t be Shelley Moore capito so probably CCM

Yeah, typo.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1276184906159271937

It speaks volumes about how Trump views his base voters that, whenever things are going badly for him, he goes back to the racism to rally his floor of like 40%.

Hatred of China is not racist.

If you don't think that calling the coronavirus by that term used in Trump's tweet ends up leading to harassment and assaults against Chinese Americans and other Asian Americans, then you are deluding yourself.

Again, hatred of China is not racist. Nationalism is not racist. You can say he's trying to whip up nationalism (which is true) but I hate China and lots of Americans hate China and it has nothing to do with the physical appearance of the bulk of its citizens. Trump has always tried to stir up nationalism, including against white European countries. You dont get to conflate literally everything with racism just because its convenient for you to avoid an argument.

Listen, I have nothing positive to say about the government of China, that government is run by dangerous authoritarians who care only about themselves and not their citizens. But it plainly the case that calling something the "ChinaVirus" (I feel disgusting even typing that) is going to whip up hatred against people with a Chinese family background and other people wrongly perceived as being Chinese, whether in China or the United States or elsewhere, and that those people targeted are going to face real dangers. It is grossly irresponsible that Trump is using that term, even if his intent - and I have my doubts that it is his intent -  is solely to criticize the government of China.

More to the point, regardless of any debate whether hatred of China, or more accurately the Chinese government, is racist or not, it's absolutely incontrovertibly scapegoating and blame shifting by Trump, who is quite culpable in completely failing to address this crisis.

Even if One Believes Trump's invoking China isn't racially-tinged, all that does is remove the cherry on top of an otherwise still- enormous failure sundae.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1276233295722942464

Go Joe!

[Badger]

They have a chip on their shoulder because they're "a grown-ass man/woman" and "someone is trying to tell me what to do." 

"It's a free country!  I have rights!!!"

I've made clear my opposition to mask mandates imposed by government, but have also emphasized my support for mask mandates imposed by businesses. As I've explained before, most of the employees at my job were not wearing masks before they were mandated to do so by the Governor's order back in April. One of my co-workers has constantly complained about it, says that he is "fine", and that he doesn't need to wear a mask. He goes maskless whenever he is not on the clock, and has it down much of the time even when he is on the clock. I saw another employee who had a scarf around his neck, but was maskless and interacting with customers. Many of these people are mental Neanderthals.

The whole macho complex surrounding these people is baffling. Attention seeking at its absolute worst.

I don't see it that way at all. I think it's that these people are literally stupid enough to think that they know better than the government and medical professionals, and they're also too simple-minded to question and challenge their own ideas and consider modifying them.

And it's not just people who are considered "uneducated".  I've seen blue-collar-looking guys in dusty construction-company t-shirts and blue jeans who are properly wearing masks and appearing to take this seriously. 

These are all things I've recently heard uttered by friends, most of whom are pursuing professional degrees:

* "Oh it's okay.  My boyfriend hasn't been anywhere in the past couple of weeks."

* "If I get it, I get it.  I'll be fine.

* "I'm actually hoping to get it just to have that immunity.

* "We've been hugging and standing closer than six feet for a while now.  I think we're okay.

And checking my Instagram this morning, there were at least ten stories (time-limited pics/videos for the uninitiated) posted by med students, dentistry students, pharmacy students, nursing students -- "educated" individuals who should know better -- eating at outdoor establishments and taking group pics where they're piled on top of each other, leaning against each other, hugging, etc. with captions like "MISSED THESE PEOPLE" and "FINALLY!!!"

I'm really not trying to be high-and-mighty or preachy.  After all, it was my own stupidity and lack of safety that led to me contracting COVID-19.  There's practically no issue with eating outdoors and enjoying the summer weather so long as businesses observe proper social distancing standards. 

But people need to do their parts, too.

Its certainly understandable. Just remember, there are a lot of "health experts" that abandoned any claim to legitimacy by flipflopping on the appropriateness of protests during the pandemic. One week they were yelling about terrorists killing granny in Michigan for protesting the lockdown the next week a large gaggle of idiot "health experts" said "racism is JUST as deadly as Coronavirus" and you were literally "violent" if you didn't pour into the streets for mass gatherings. I never had much faith in what "health experts" said before this all started but the incredulity of some others in this thread that more and more normies are ignoring the "experts" after months of garbage wolf-crying seems dense. Trust must be earned and the "health experts" have really schat the bed the past few months. I was legally prohibited from attending 3 different funerals and months of church. My grandfather is dying of cancer and the hospital still wont let us visit. My dad has chronic medical problems and the doctors are still hesitant to schedule his appointments. I have tons of friends unemployed. And this past month the experts all but demanded everyone break the rules that caused all of this and go out and destroy public art. If they now try to reimpose lockdowns after their month of politically-motivated advice, you really think most of us are going to give a damn what some moron in a white coat says?

Ah yes, more anti-scientist rhetoric.
Yes, many healthcare workers did support the protests, but many also acknowledged full well that cases would increase because of the protests. Their logic was that this problem is so harmful to black Americans, that it is worth the extra spread. I actually disagreed, but thats it’s own story.
Regardless, not all doctors:healthcare experts did support the protests, and a large number of those who didn’t were too scared (because of likely mob “justice”) to speak up.

The people in white coats know more about the virus than you do, and while the protests were part of the problem, the rapid reopenings, Americans being idiots and having more relative mobility than literally any other current World hotspot (see Apple mobility trends) and the lack of mask mandates also contributed.

I don't believe that anywhere near the majority of doctors or public health officials had anything to say about the Floyd protests, really.

The problem is the media class, who amplified the COVID fearmongering before doing a complete 180 to downplay virus concerns as protests started.  Now that public attention regarding the protests has started to wane, they're back to shrieking about masks keeping schools closed.  Everything they do is to paint Trump and Republicans in the worst light possible.   

In fairness, I was pleasantly surprised to see how almost ubiquitous mask-wearing was among protesters. There were even at least reasonable albeit inconsistent attempts at Social distancing. Not much less successful than I saw at say the grocery store the past few weeks.

[Badger]

These states that are shutting down again had better have learned their lesson about "saving the economy" and minimizing the "authoritarianism". The more times they open and shut, the worse off the economy will be. Close early and stay closed until the right time without rushing it.

How do you know when the time is right?

My two cents? Likely when the public health experts with a lifetime's experience in the field say so, not when we hear it from the moron solely concerned with re-election who peddles sunlamps and injecting bleach as a cure-all. Or from his many enablers.