Republicans only: what was so bad about Obama?

[Badger]

His very left-wing social agenda, some of which was defeated in courts.  But, he was probably the first president who fully embraced the idea of America as a post-Christian nation and went all-in on secular, left-wing values.

America never was a Christian nation

That's the principle that we disagree on.  I don't think the government should force adherence to any religion, but our laws should absolutely have a basis in Christian values.

How profoundly against the letter and spirit of the founding fathers ideals.

[Badger]

His very left-wing social agenda, some of which was defeated in courts.  But, he was probably the first president who fully embraced the idea of America as a post-Christian nation and went all-in on secular, left-wing values.

America never was a Christian nation

But we were, in my lifetime, a Christian-IZED nation.  A nation where the Christian influence of our Founding Fathers wes taught in schools and celebrated.  Where the Church, and the idea of God were held by people with a degree of reverance, even if they were not religious.  Where the Ten Commandments were the standard for public morailty, even among unbelievers.  Where, despite differences, when American prayed, they were, for the most part, praying to the same God.

Why it surprises people that we, as a nation, have experienced more disunity as we become less Christianized is a mystery to me.  That we, as a people, prayed to the same God was a unifying force.  Those days are gone, and they are not likely to come back, short of a miracle of God, Himself.  But let's not kid ourselves; the secularism today that is a secularism steeped in open hostility to the idea of a God that is, indeed, an Authority Figure, has not always been the dominant moral force in our society.  I'm old enough to remember when it wasn't.

Fuzzy. I hate to break it to you , but we never, ever, " all prayed to the same God". Or even prayed at all. The reality is infinitely more complex than that, and far less saccharin than your misplaced nostalgia for your personal sects religious hegemony over the public sphere.

[Badger]

His very left-wing social agenda, some of which was defeated in courts.  But, he was probably the first president who fully embraced the idea of America as a post-Christian nation and went all-in on secular, left-wing values.

America never was a Christian nation

But we were, in my lifetime, a Christian-IZED nation.  A nation where the Christian influence of our Founding Fathers wes taught in schools and celebrated.  Where the Church, and the idea of God were held by people with a degree of reverance, even if they were not religious.  Where the Ten Commandments were the standard for public morailty, even among unbelievers.  Where, despite differences, when American prayed, they were, for the most part, praying to the same God.

Why it surprises people that we, as a nation, have experienced more disunity as we become less Christianized is a mystery to me.  That we, as a people, prayed to the same God was a unifying force.  Those days are gone, and they are not likely to come back, short of a miracle of God, Himself.  But let's not kid ourselves; the secularism today that is a secularism steeped in open hostility to the idea of a God that is, indeed, an Authority Figure, has not always been the dominant moral force in our society.  I'm old enough to remember when it wasn't.

Fuzzy. I hate to break it to you , but we never, ever, " all prayed to the same God". Or even prayed at all. The reality is infinitely more complex than that, and far less saccharin than your misplaced nostalgia for your personal sects religious hegemony over the public sphere.

Maybe not 100%, but America, for the most part, believed in Jehovah God (the God of the Bible) as God overwhelmingly for most of our history.  That's not to say that there weren't theological differences, but we prayed to the same God.  This includes Jews, who, while not (for the most part) believers in Jesus Christ as the Messiah, believe in God the Father as being the same personage as Christians do.

I was alive during this period.  Please don't condescend to the level of telling me what America was like at a time when I was alive and you were not.  I grew up and watched this change before my eyes.

Jews disagree with you vehement Lee as far as being part of the Big Happy Family judeo Christian culture that you imagine. That whole term judeo Christian only became hip among fundamentalist seeking to reassert their control over the political sphere when it no longer became politically expedient to demonize Jews. That went up through the 1960s, not the 1160s.

Iirc, you're only about 10 years older than me. I will gladly take extensively reading on the subject over your extremely biased anecdotal personal experience. You've already demonstrated to view the experience through Christ colored glasses.

[Badger]

His very left-wing social agenda, some of which was defeated in courts.  But, he was probably the first president who fully embraced the idea of America as a post-Christian nation and went all-in on secular, left-wing values.

America never was a Christian nation

That's the principle that we disagree on.  I don't think the government should force adherence to any religion, but our laws should absolutely have a basis in Christian values.

How profoundly against the letter and spirit of the founding fathers ideals.

"Separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution.  The first amendment only protects religion from government's interference, but does not protect the government from religion's influence.  No faithful Christian would be willing to say "Jesus, look away" when they were voting on a piece of legislation.  Christians must take Christ with them everywhere they go.

So surely you would not protest if a Muslim politician wanted to impose Sharia Law using the same rationale?

I would certainly protest the idea that electing someone who believed that would be good for the preservation of individual liberties.

As would the deist Founding Fathers if someone wanted Christianity enshrined into law.

Deism amongst the Founding Fathers is overstated.

That one tenth as much as they're supposed desire to found a specifically Christian Nation is overstated.

We get it. You want one nation, Under a very specific God.

[Badger]

Barack Obama's Presidency was failure.

On the domestic front, his anti-growth approach to the economy, which consisted of increased taxes and unchaining regulatory agencies ensured that his presidency would be one marked by anemic economic growth. The fact that his economic recovery after the Great Recession was the weakest in 70 years is a testament to this fact. His largest achievement, Obamacare, has been a failure. From causing millions of Americans to lose their insurance, to the economically harmful employer mandate/regressive individual mandate, and skyrocketing healthcare costs, Obamacare failed to improve the American healthcare system.

On the international stage, from ignoring the threat of Russia, to putting distance between us and Israel, and engaging in the ineffective/dangerous Iranian Nuclear Deal, Obama's approach to foreign policy was a record of weakness and naivete.

I do find this an unfairly harsh judgement.

Obama took office in the wake of something that was more than just a recession; it was an economic event that caused longstanding structural damage to our economy that was caused, unquestionably, by Republican economic policies that sought to create a "boom" economy that was fueled by inflated housing values, and not by real growth in the economy.  It was Republican policies that caused housing values in America to soar far out of proportion to what working people actually earned; a certain amount of the housing crash was an inevitable correction that the Republican economic policymakers of the Bush 43 administration should have known would occur.  

I personally believe that the main problem with Obama's Stimulus policies was that they didn't go far enough.  In that regard, the GOP is to blame, because they did not want Obama to succeed.  They wanted more of the same that created the problem.  If the Democrats have become a party which worship secularism, the GOP has become a party that worships capitalism to the point of Social Darwinism.

The insurance that Obamacare caused people to use was, for the most part, junk insurance with inadequate coverage; something that people could present to get them into the hospital in a pinch, only to hear soon afterward that they aren't covered.  The GOP has long governed America in a manner where they have been unconcerned for the masses without health insurance, or who were plunged in to medical bankruptcy due to catastrophic illness; they have opposed any and all proposals that included universal coverage.  And they have refused to consider legislation designed to fix the flaws in Obamacare; they WANTED it to fail and WORKED for it to fail.  And they have no plan that will, indeed, ensure healthcare access to all that will not bankrupt people.  (I thought, at one time, that Trump actually had some ideas that would fix the flaws in Obamacare, but he's apparently cast his lot making deals with the Freedom Caucus, which is not what I had in mind when I voted for him.)  

Obama had his flaws.  His foreign policy failed to extract us from any number of foolish foreign entanglements, and some of his accomplishments don't look as good in hindsight (although the Iran Nuclear Deal WAS a positive on balance).  And he wrecked the Democratic Party; the Clinton's takeover of the party apparatus was accomplished, in part, because of Obama's neglect of the party, itself.  I certainly didn't enjoy the social liberalism, not at all.  But the GOP Congress dealt with him with ill will, unconcerned for the common weal.  Their whole goal was to work to see him fail, and they were pretty open and honest about that.  I abhor "The Resistance" Congress to Trump, and I view the concept as un-American, but a certain amount of that is a response to "The Obstruction" that the GOP presented Obama.  There was never ANY good will extended Obama by Republcans.  None at all.  They wanted him to fail so they could get back in power, and they didn't really hide it.  In that regard, Obama may have been better off being more like Trump; giving more crap to his opponents that he got from them.  

I suppose my assessment of Obama is mixed because of my mixed outlook (economic liberal, social conservative) on issues.  He's not Mount Rushmore material, but the harsh judgements on his Presidency by Republicans are purely partisan.  Compromise and achievement on the part of Republicans during the Obama years would have been wonderful for America, both practically and socially, but Republicans were no better at putting the whole of America ahead of partisanship then than Democrats are now.

Wish old Atlas allowed me to like posts