White Girl Bill (Failed)

[Badger]

I oppose this bill. I'm against the legalisation of drugs.

I want to help the drug addicts. That means they should be provided by the state with the respective drugs. That would reduce crime and give them a human perspective.

The comparison with alcohol is not correct. Alcohol isn't very good, but it's a part of our culture since thousands of years, drugs don't.

Alcohol is far more dangerous to society than these drugs are - alcohol encourages violence against other people. Cocaine does not.

Not correct. Both drugs do, actually.

That said, I'm not saying how I'll vote on this, but I would note to stated opponents like NCY and Hans that Winston pointing out alcohol is legal and regulated and legal despite being highly destructive may be very compelling to some. I think it behooves you to argue specifically how and why harder drugs like these are supposedly so much more addictive and destructive than alcohol that they must be outlawed while alcohol is available at the corner gas station. And IMHO the mere fact alcohol has a much older pedigree of being socially acceptable means little in terms of defining a drug's actual addictive and destructive properties.

IIRC, last time I checked many years ago that when the numbers of hard drug users and overdose deaths were compared to alcohol, even the most conservative estimates showed alcohol to be much more deadly (even without DUI fatalities).

[Badger]

I oppose this.

The level of harm done must be taken into consideration.  Marijuana is perhaps the most benign of intoxicating substances, both in terms of its addictive qualities and the damage done to the user.  One cannot die from a pot overdose.  I am happy that this drug is legal in Atlasia.  Alcohol is more dangerous, it can be physically addictive, and it is possible (though rare) to die from overdose.  Cocaine and methamphetamine are both highly addictive substances which can rather easily be overdosed.  Badger mentioned that alcohol causes more harm- I believe that is because its use is more widespread due to its legality, and not because it is more harmful.  If we take the irresponsible step of legalising these dangerous substances, those statistics will surely change.

Actually, Fritz, the statistics I looked at (again, a long time ago) indicated that on a per capita/user rate--not merely overall numbers--the rate of lethal overdoses for alcohol were significantly higher than those for cocaine and heroin. Surprising I admit, but nonetheless.....

[Badger]

I oppose this.

The level of harm done must be taken into consideration.  Marijuana is perhaps the most benign of intoxicating substances, both in terms of its addictive qualities and the damage done to the user.  One cannot die from a pot overdose.  I am happy that this drug is legal in Atlasia.  Alcohol is more dangerous, it can be physically addictive, and it is possible (though rare) to die from overdose.  Cocaine and methamphetamine are both highly addictive substances which can rather easily be overdosed.  Badger mentioned that alcohol causes more harm- I believe that is because its use is more widespread due to its legality, and not because it is more harmful.  If we take the irresponsible step of legalising these dangerous substances, those statistics will surely change.

Actually, Fritz, the statistics I looked at (again, a long time ago) indicated that on a per capita/user rate--not merely overall numbers--the rate of lethal overdoses for alcohol were significantly higher than those for cocaine and heroin. Surprising I admit, but nonetheless.....

I don't believe it.  Please cite your sources.

1987 statistics  (I told you these were old, but I doubt the numbers and ratios have changed markedly since then) from the National Institute on Drug Abuse and Bureau of Mortality Statistics show there were some 3800 to 5200 deaths from illegal drug use in the US, including suicides. None of these deaths occurred from marijuana of course.  125,000 people died as a direct result of alcohol use, not counting highway fatalities or homicides. NIDA surveys from that year approximated 18 million users of illegal drugs other than marijuana, and 113 million users of alcohol. (These statistics were cited by an opponent of drug legalization in 1988 congressional hearings on the subject.)

This averages out to less than one drug overdose for every 3500 drug users (again, not including marijuana) compared to one such death for every 900 drinkers. By comparison, prescription and over the counter medication is estimated to have caused 14-27 thousand deaths that year (including suicides and mixing the substances with alcohol). Even simple Aspirin caused anywhere from 180-1,000 deaths, including suicides.

And no, don't you dare ask me for a link to such old school research.

[Badger]

If this were RL in Ohio I'd vote nay, but in Atlasia:

Abstain.