France General Discussion

[Antonio the Sixth]

No comment.

[Antonio the Sixth]

rofl. Who's next? The PS?

Those who could come already did.

Only NPA has not ( yet ) one or two places.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Ipsos approvals

Oh, thanks for these graphs ! I've always wanted to see evolution of approval rantings... Thanks again.
Anyways, great news to see Delanoe as the most popular politician. I would have voted for him in 2008...

Non; mon français est horrible. J'use Wiktionnaire.

Utilise.

Aha, je me venge pour toutes les fois ou tu m'as corrigé !

[Antonio the Sixth]

BTW, forgot to mention this :

Villepin is now officially guilty.

[Antonio the Sixth]

BTW, forgot to mention this :

Villepin is now officially guilty.

Oh, what happened?

Didn't you hear Sarko ? It was some days ago.

[Antonio the Sixth]

BTW, forgot to mention this :

Villepin is now officially guilty.

Oh, what happened?

Didn't you hear Sarko ? It was some days ago.

Ah this, yes, well, good move of Villepin's lawyers, and Sarkozy should be aware that now he has serious responsibilities before he talks. Yup, that's hard, politics today being less and less considered as something serious...

And that's grave. If we accept this, things are getting very, very bad...

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yup Antonio, but personally I consider a bad circle is already being engaged, that politics won't stop leaning toward populism for times to come now.

Don't be so pessimistic. Nothing is unavoidable.

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Principles are here to protect human being against abuses of power. Now I'm not talking about morality and so forth, I talking about Humanist principles that establish the State of Right without which "democracy" is a void term. I don' support those principles because of a spiritual reason, I support them because they create a political system that know which should be his goal : not to get more and more power, but to help its citizens and improve individual happiness.

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The point is not so abstract : it's on everyone's freedom. Letting politicians behaves so represent a real danger not a moral one. I never cared about morality.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The point is not so abstract : it's on everyone's freedom. Letting politicians behaves so represent a real danger not a moral one. I never cared about morality.

The point precisely being that today I think the biggest match takes place on the ground of morality and sens. . We shouldn't put that much into politics, once again it is a rather technical thing. Though, as I said, it's not a reason to let it go, I blame and congratulate what I feel i have to, but I think today the biggest match is elsewhere...

State of Right is the most important thing we have. Nothing comes before. Again, I know many people love to make it a moral issue, but it isn't. It's like saying that forbidding murder is a moral issue because First Commandment says we shouldn't.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The point is not so abstract : it's on everyone's freedom. Letting politicians behaves so represent a real danger not a moral one. I never cared about morality.

The point precisely being that today I think the biggest match takes place on the ground of morality and sens. . We shouldn't put that much into politics, once again it is a rather technical thing. Though, as I said, it's not a reason to let it go, I blame and congratulate what I feel i have to, but I think today the biggest match is elsewhere...

State of Right is the most important thing we have. Nothing comes before. Again, I know many people love to make it a moral issue, but it isn't. It's like saying that forbidding murder is a moral issue because First Commandment says we shouldn't.

Héhé, your example just makes my point Antonio, why is that forbidden to murder?

Where do the principles of the "State of right" come from?

(oh f***, we're going in such a debate here, not sure that's the place for so, but, well...)

Very interesting debate : is it because religion said "Don't kill" that killing was forbidden, or is it because it was forbidden that religion said he was ?
Religion often traduces the current menatlity of the people, a mentality that correspond to dumb prejudices in a great part (homosexuality is evil !) but also to common sense (we can't let people kill each other).

[Antonio the Sixth]

(they're the only sane and competent news source in France).

Couldn't agree more.

[Antonio the Sixth]

(they're the only sane and competent news source in France).

Couldn't agree more.

Héhé, yup, my pessimist thoughts are justified, look at this youth we have...

Their caricatures are not superficial, they manage to get the essential of every politician.
For example, I really like Jospin but I find his "Guignol" is a perfect caricature of him.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I honestly don't know what you are talking about. That being sai, I should precise that I've never seen the "daily Guignols", but only their annuan "Best ofs".

[Antonio the Sixth]

No one cared about this referendum. No one cares about the PS anymore.

[Antonio the Sixth]

*facepalm*

[Antonio the Sixth]

I still support Sarkozy until the end of Clearstream, as Villepin is far worse.

But, after that, well, Juppé, Copé, Borloo or anybody else than Sarkozy for president...

This designation, plus territorial reform, plus some family reforms, that's really too much.
Man never changes... Sigh.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only to be disappointed by his party's leaders.

[Antonio the Sixth]

So many "ouverture" ministers in the palmares...

[Antonio the Sixth]

Héhé, I expect him playing the great lord "I've been illegitimately attacked but ok, ok, I let you this post... Are you happy of yourself now?".

Sure.


And depressing.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Personally, I saw Moscovici during "Mots croisés" one week ago and I found him very clever.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Listening François Hollande on France5. Socialists are really intellectually totally lost...

Though not the brightest bulb in the PS, François Hollande is miles smarter than his ex. Sarah Segolene Palin-Royal.

It depends in what sense, in terms of how to be elected today Ségolène - Eva Peron - Holy Mary - Jeanne D'Arc - Royal, beats everybody in PS imo. I know she isn't trendy in polls, but i maintain she's the most able to get elected, as far as today.

No. She is the most able to get nominated by PS members because of all her "anti-establishment" blablabla... But then she will be crushed by Sarko. And being crushed by a so unpopular President means being really dumb.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Sarkozy vs. Strauss-Khan/Delanoe/[insert a sane socialist here] would result in a socialist win, if the situation doesn't improve very significantly in the next two years.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Sarkozy vs. Strauss-Khan/Delanoe/[insert a sane socialist here] would result in a socialist win, if the situation doesn't improve very significantly in the next two years.

That's just the opposite of what I think.

Really ??

In the sense "Sarko will win in 2012 anyways" or in the sense "DSK and Delanoe aren't sane at all" ?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Well, I still don't understand what's so bad with being an "old-style" socialist. Jospin was a successful Prime Minister, and the "elephants" so criticized now were very competent people, at least a great part of them.
"New-style" (Ségo-style) socialists are just irresponsible populists who, behing their obsession of "changing things", have nothing concrete to say, nothing intelligent to think. The killed the PS, wereas it had good chances to easily win after another failure UMP administration and with a candidate that many people considered a far rightist (which isn't so far from the reality).

[Antonio the Sixth]

A great deal of truth in all that. Indeed, the most problematic thing is that the left has kept acting pramatically but at the same time keeping an old-style populo-marxist speech. That's why they have been cowards, accepting to make the ideological progress, but unable to confess to the people that they did. But now the leftist/pragmatic divide makes no sense since with recent events, being pragmatic means being to the left. That doesn't mean we will nationalize and so forth, but just that Welfare State ideology seems again a serious option.

Anyways, your positive comments about Fabius (one of the most opportunistic people around here, having no problem to switch from the "leftist" to the "pragmatic" side and then back to the leftist...) surprised me a lot. As for Royal, none of her word makes sense, and the other's egocentrism is nothing compare to her.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Of course, the same comment obviously applies to the SFIO, more so perhaps.

Not that I am very well versed in before Mitterand period, but, euh, well, as SFIO leaders that had power Léon Blum comes here, and his acts were coordinated to his speeches, then as a leader  Mendès comes here too, though his passage marked more the international affairs than socio-economic issues.

Mendès was a radical.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Of course, the same comment obviously applies to the SFIO, more so perhaps.

Not that I am very well versed in before Mitterand period, but, euh, well, as SFIO leaders that had power Léon Blum comes here, and his acts were coordinated to his speeches, then as a leader  Mendès comes here too, though his passage marked more the international affairs than socio-economic issues.

Mendès was a radical.

Héhé, thanks, the most interesting thing to retain in my preceding post were then that I'm not very well versed in the history of the SFIO, and that Blum comes as a SFIO leader who gave some concrete realizations to leftist speech.

Makes sense anyways. Indeed lthe SFIO, thanks to Jaurès and Blum, had a long tradition of integrity, untill Mollet transformed it into a machine (and the worse, a machine that didn't work ).