Gallup: Americans Hold Record Liberal Views on Most Moral Issues

[Antonio the Sixth]

There are some trends and numbers in here that are heartening, and some that are deeply troubling.

Basically this (though we probably disagree on the exact balance).

[Antonio the Sixth]

Afleitch, I'm not going to pretend that I'm exactly a neutral and dispassionate observer to this whole exchange - for full disclosure, yeah, Nathan is a close friend and that's probably why it pisses me off so much to see you pursuing this obsessive vendetta against him. Having said that, what in the world is wrong with you? Everybody knows about which issues you disagree with Nathan and why, including himself. If your posts had managed to persuade him of the errors of his ways, I think we'd be able to see it by now, don't you think? Clearly it can't be what motivates you, since otherwise you'd have understood a while ago that it's not working.

I know you're very smart and cultured, so I'm pretty sure you know at least the basics of how persuasion works and what the best ways to convince your interlocutor are. Suffice to say those don't include theatrically playing up your outrage at every viewpoint they express, accusing them of holding those viewpoints for shallow or unprincipled reasons, deliberately misrepresenting or ignoring their arguments, and berating someone you know is suffering from depression for failing to "engage with what makes [him] uncomfortable". People who are sincerely interested in changing someone's mind try to see things from their perspective and acknowledge that they have good reasons for believing what they do, even if they happen to be wrong. If you'd tried to do that with Nathan, it would have been a pretty damn fascinating exchange, and as someone who's somewhere in the middle of your respective worldviews (probably still closer to yours, actually) I'd be the first to sign up for that.

But that's clearly not what you're going for - so, tell me, what are you actually trying to accomplish? It's not like Nathan is the only one holding these kinds of views on the forum, but somehow I don't see you accusing DC of being "desperate to confirm to whatever 1950's Tory Calvinist theological persona he's been reading up in". It's hard to escape the conclusion that you just enjoy getting a rise out of him - which becomes downright sinister when you consider, again, that he has been upfront about struggling with depression. I would certainly say that you are "better than that". I don't think you're deliberately trying to be cruel, but that's how you're coming off, at least to me and to the person you're purporting to help. So I'd encourage you to take a deep look at your yourself before you make one of these posts again.