Labour Party (UK) Leadership Election, 2016 (user search)
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Author Topic: Labour Party (UK) Leadership Election, 2016  (Read 58031 times)
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
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Posts: 58,364
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Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2016, 02:49:29 PM »
Quote from: Sibboleth on July 19, 2016, 12:21:35 PM


Well there's a map of Smith's nominations anyway. I suppose you could add Current Frontbenchers to this and the remainder would mostly be Eagle noms?

Welsh parochialism FTW! Cheesy
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2016, 03:13:23 PM »
« Edited: July 19, 2016, 03:16:10 PM by I did not see L.A. »
Quote from: Sibboleth on July 19, 2016, 02:51:20 PM

Indeed. We (by which I mean 'the Welsh') want our Party back, lol.

If Smith beats Corbyn thanks to Welsh voters, England should really thank the heavens that at least you don't want to leave! Wink
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2016, 05:10:50 PM »
Quote from: Swedish Austerity Cheese on July 19, 2016, 04:28:53 PM
Quote from: I did not see L.A. on July 19, 2016, 03:13:23 PM
Quote from: Sibboleth on July 19, 2016, 02:51:20 PM

Indeed. We (by which I mean 'the Welsh') want our Party back, lol.

If Smith beats Corbyn thanks to Welsh voters, England should really thank the heavens that at least you don't want to leave! Wink

If Owen Smith loses to Jeremy Corbyn, but wins among Welsh Labour members, will Leanne Wood demand an independence referendum for Wales? Tongue

She should! Everybody leave the sinking ship England if that happens.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2016, 01:56:33 AM »

What is wrong with Labour voters? Seriously.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2016, 11:47:06 AM »
Quote from: Phony Moderate on July 24, 2016, 07:24:48 AM
Quote from: YL on July 24, 2016, 06:44:34 AM

A decent proportion of respondents in that poll (which, note, is a subsample of Labour supporters in a national poll) have probably never heard of Owen Smith or at least know very little about him.

Plus he's got the most generic and forgettable name in the universe.

Heh, Owen is less generic and forgettable than John at least. Tongue
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2016, 03:59:01 PM »
Quote from: adma on July 24, 2016, 03:53:01 PM
Quote from: I did not see L.A. on July 24, 2016, 11:47:06 AM
Heh, Owen is less generic and forgettable than John at least. Tongue

Labour tried that one in the early 90s; unfortunately, he died and Blair took his place.


...yes, I'm aware of John Smith and I was deliberately referencing him. -_-
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #31 on: August 09, 2016, 01:37:42 AM »
Why aren't the unions doing a better job at turning out their members? One would think that in a party like Labour they would be used to playing an important role.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2016, 01:05:20 PM »
Quote from: Sibboleth on August 09, 2016, 12:56:04 PM
Quote from: I did not see L.A. on August 09, 2016, 01:37:42 AM
Why aren't the unions doing a better job at turning out their members? One would think that in a party like Labour they would be used to playing an important role.

The role they're used to playing is institutional; they dominate Conference and the NEC and this is they way they like things. And Conference still operates on the old block vote; the representative of the union casts all of the members votes for them. OMOV isn't something they're much good at; turnouts in internal union elections are terrible as well.

And additionally a lot of them are now the product of megamergers and are rather distant from their members.

And, yes, those that have a considerable number of clerical-and-upwards public sector members often also have a lot of members who don't and won't vote Labour anyway, let alone participate in internal Party votes.

That's really sad.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2016, 01:28:51 AM »

This doesn't look good, does it?
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2016, 06:27:46 AM »
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2016, 04:15:19 PM »

Do you think he can move votes in London?
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2016, 01:24:57 PM »
Ugh. I thought Corbyn was at least above this kind of dishonesty. At this point I'll be heartbroken if he still somehow wins.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2016, 02:24:36 PM »
Quote from: Hifly on August 23, 2016, 02:12:06 PM
Quote from: I did not see L.A. on August 23, 2016, 01:24:57 PM
Ugh. I thought Corbyn was at least above this kind of dishonesty. At this point I'll be heartbroken if he still somehow wins.

What do you mean by "somehow"?
Clarification to the foreign posters: he will win.

The likelihood doesn't make it any less baffling.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2016, 08:07:06 AM »
Quote from: Bacon! on August 24, 2016, 05:51:07 AM
Quote from: I did not see L.A. on August 23, 2016, 01:24:57 PM
Ugh. I thought Corbyn was at least above this kind of dishonesty. At this point I'll be heartbroken if he still somehow wins.

Of all the reasons to be heartbroken about a candidate's dishonesty, "staging a campaign video to argue for more public transit spending" is all things considered pretty mild, no?

I already dislike Corbyn for his boneheaded brand of leftism, his ability to alienate everybody and his total lack of any political sense. I thought honesty was his one saving grace.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2016, 08:44:53 AM »
Well, if even Blair has given up, I guess we can safely say RIP Smith... and RIP Labour.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2016, 02:27:43 PM »
Quote
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I actually agree with this, but in the opposite way.

Smith represents politics, for the better and for the worse. Corbyn represents the empty posturing of people who don't actually care about making a difference in people's lives, as long as they can feel morally superior for being a "principled leftist".
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2016, 06:24:15 AM »
Quote from: Phony Moderate on September 01, 2016, 05:37:42 AM
Quote from: I did not see L.A. on August 31, 2016, 02:27:43 PM
Smith represents politics, for the better and for the worse.

It's not as deep as that; Smith represents those who want to see Jeremy Corbyn out as Labour leader. If he represents politics then he's not very good at it.

Politics isn't always good politics.

The point is that politics is about at least trying to wield some power, to have a transformative influence on the reality around you. Corbyn doesn't give a sh*t about the reality around him. All he wants is ideological purity, even if this leads him to utter irrelevance.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2016, 08:08:48 AM »
Quote from: Watermelon sin Jamón on September 01, 2016, 07:23:37 AM
Quote from: I did not see L.A. on September 01, 2016, 06:24:15 AM
Quote from: Phony Moderate on September 01, 2016, 05:37:42 AM
Quote from: I did not see L.A. on August 31, 2016, 02:27:43 PM
Smith represents politics, for the better and for the worse.

It's not as deep as that; Smith represents those who want to see Jeremy Corbyn out as Labour leader. If he represents politics then he's not very good at it.

Politics isn't always good politics.

The point is that politics is about at least trying to wield some power, to have a transformative influence on the reality around you. Corbyn doesn't give a sh*t about the reality around him. All he wants is ideological purity, even if this leads him to utter irrelevance.
Do you really think the likes of Smith want to have a transformative influence on anything relevant ? Are you that deluded ? It's a bit sad. They want power, yes, but they don't want to actually do anything of it, and they end up just reinforcing the powers already existent, as shown by the whole Hollande experience. But, ok, I realize I'm now among the most far-leftists here, so I'll dial it down a notch.

Because obviously anyone even slightly to the right of Corbyn's stale, dogmatic brand of far-leftism is just as bad as Hollande. Right.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2016, 08:42:36 AM »
Quote from: Watermelon sin Jamón on September 01, 2016, 08:19:48 AM
FWIW, I don't think Corbyn is far-left by any definition. He's a bland keynesian at best.

And what is Smith then? An evil neoliberal Blairite crypto-Thatcherist? On what basis exactly? Huh
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2016, 09:28:47 AM »
Quote from: Watermelon sin Jamón on September 01, 2016, 09:25:25 AM
Quote from: I did not see L.A. on September 01, 2016, 08:42:36 AM
Quote from: Watermelon sin Jamón on September 01, 2016, 08:19:48 AM
FWIW, I don't think Corbyn is far-left by any definition. He's a bland keynesian at best.

And what is Smith then? An evil neoliberal Blairite crypto-Thatcherist? On what basis exactly? Huh
Mainly on the basis of trolling everyone around here. But, yeah, I've shifted to the left quite a bit in the last year or so. Wink

Oh well, you were already more leftist than me beforehand, so I can barely imagine now. Tongue

Seriously though, I really don't like the implication that anyone with a shed of pragmatism about how to achieve left-wing principles is always necessarily a sellout. That's clearly a false dichotomy.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2016, 10:37:54 AM »
Quote from: warandwar on September 01, 2016, 10:22:36 AM
Quote from: I did not see L.A. on September 01, 2016, 09:28:47 AM
Quote from: Watermelon sin Jamón on September 01, 2016, 09:25:25 AM
Quote from: I did not see L.A. on September 01, 2016, 08:42:36 AM
Quote from: Watermelon sin Jamón on September 01, 2016, 08:19:48 AM
FWIW, I don't think Corbyn is far-left by any definition. He's a bland keynesian at best.

And what is Smith then? An evil neoliberal Blairite crypto-Thatcherist? On what basis exactly? Huh
Mainly on the basis of trolling everyone around here. But, yeah, I've shifted to the left quite a bit in the last year or so. Wink

Oh well, you were already more leftist than me beforehand, so I can barely imagine now. Tongue

Seriously though, I really don't like the implication that anyone with a shed of pragmatism about how to achieve left-wing principles is always necessarily a sellout. That's clearly a false dichotomy.

I see what you're saying, but I think if some fetishize being "principled" in lieu of capacity for action, plenty are guilty of fetishizing "pragmatism" as well.

Well, duh. As a matter of fact, I've spent far more time calling out the latter on their bullsh*t than I have calling out the former on their bullsh*t - including on this very forum.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2016, 08:50:45 PM »
Quote from: ag on September 08, 2016, 07:01:30 PM
I mean, this is a political disaster. Britain has no opposition to speak of. Why should any English voter who does not like the Conservatives not vote Libdem at this point?

Stop trying to make they LibDems happen. They're not going to happen.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2016, 08:36:31 AM »
I have no idea what parallel universe Ag inhabits, but it sounds pretty interesting.
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2016, 06:47:17 AM »

Ooooh boy...
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,364
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
« Reply #49 on: September 23, 2016, 01:57:57 PM »
Quote from: Intell on September 23, 2016, 05:59:35 AM
For the talk of electability, labour probably lost more votes because of the leadership election, with the Owen Smith coup (or campaign) against Corbyn, then when Corbyn was actually leader before the EU referendum, to which Corbyn, leading the party was par with the 2015 eleciton results, sometimes beating the 2015 election results in polls.

Corbyn shouldn't have started sacking shadow cabinet members on a tantrum.
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