Should Germany pay Greece reparations for World War II?

[Antonio the Sixth]

No, they should just accept to write off a part of the Greek debt and implement Euro-bonds. No need to resurrect old disputes if they stop being pretentious pricks on current ones.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yes, because the last time Germany had to pay reparations, it worked out well for everyone involved

OK, then Greece knows what it has to do to get some respect from Europe: elect an insane, warmongering tyrant who will spread death and misery throughout the continent.

[Antonio the Sixth]

As for Antonio's suggestion, as most Greek debt is in French banks, I'm sure it's not just pure opportunism.

Does not follow.

[Antonio the Sixth]

As for Antonio's suggestion, as most Greek debt is in French banks, I'm sure it's not just pure opportunism.

Does not follow.

Well I'm sure it's a complete coincidence that your suggestion will result in German tax money being transfered to French bankers.

I don't get it. Why should writing off the debt owed by Greece toward French banks be a good thing for said French banks and a bad thing for Germany?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Of course not. Jesus. How the hell is "Yes" winning?

You know, now that I think about it, it's remarkable that I don't think I've ever seen a thread on this situation that hasn't been  poor innocent Greece  or alternatively weird glee at how Greece can best fuck up Europe as some kind of infantile revenge for the consequences of their own mistakes. Even the election threads were dominated by Trotskyite hysterics.

I look forward to Tsipras's next pathetic stunt, anyway. Does Greece have a nuclear power plant he can threaten to force into meltdown?

Are you living in an alternate reality? This forum is full of insane austericrats.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Maybe I'm dumb but I still don't get the point Ingermann is trying to make. The fact that French banks own most of the Greek debt should make me support slashing off said debt? What sense does that make?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Are you living in an alternate reality? This forum is full of insane austericrats.

Well, I still have some hope left that you will once join the good side too, once you start earning your own money - instead of simply spending the money from your parents to finance your studies etc. ...

Spoken like a true US Republican. "Those damn lib'ruls only care about helping the poor because they're lazy moochers, but once they begin working their ass off they'll become good upstanding fiscal conservatives like us!"

[Antonio the Sixth]

Austerity objectively doesn't work so I'm really not sure what to make of this tendency to act like it's the default position and any deviation from it is infantile histrionics.

Indeed. I spent several threads trying to make this point, but I've mostly given up by now. I've come to realize the entire northern Europe is subject to an incessant media propaganda that systematically distorts facts to create an alternate reality where Greece could magically solve all of its problems and start off anew if it just wanted to, but instead for some reason prefers to continue mooching off the good harworking northern countries. This has become a mass indoctrination. You'd have better chances convincing a Scientology adept that he's being scammed.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Are you living in an alternate reality? This forum is full of insane austericrats.

Well, I still have some hope left that you will once join the good side too, once you start earning your own money - instead of simply spending the money from your parents to finance your studies etc. ...

Spoken like a true US Republican. "Those damn lib'ruls only care about helping the poor because they're lazy moochers, but once they begin working their ass off they'll become good upstanding fiscal conservatives like us!"

Not spoken like a true Republican, but more like someone with common sense. If you want to live your life like the Greeks, go ahead. And end up broke and a financial slave to others. But that's not what I want to do. Saving is awesome and that's how I managed my money since forever and now have a good surplus. If I managed it like the Greeks, I'd live under a bridge now. And btw, this policy is not really exclusively "Republican". Even Green parties, like the Baden-Württemberg ones, are in favor of fiscal conservatism.

Of course it's easy to be in favor of "fiscal conservatism" when you can balance your budget without putting millions of people in poverty and cutting access to basic services. I'm sure the Greeks who have lost their employment, income, home and healthcare are very happy to know you are doing fine.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Not spoken like a true Republican, but more like someone with common sense. If you want to live your life like the Greeks, go ahead. And end up broke and a financial slave to others. But that's not what I want to do. Saving is awesome and that's how I managed my money since forever and now have a good surplus. If I managed it like the Greeks, I'd live under a bridge now. And btw, this policy is not really exclusively "Republican". Even Green parties, like the Baden-Württemberg ones, are in favor of fiscal conservatism.

See Branson, there's no doubt about the incompetence of the previous Greek governments (PASOK and ND) but this comment is really insulting for those Greek citizens suffering the consequences of their bad management and the criminal (there's no other word to describe it) diktat from Germany and the Troika. At this point, it doesn't surprise me the terrible lack of empathy of well-meaning fiscal conservatives like you. Probably you are only a product of the environment, a victim of indoctrination. However, calm down.

It was not meant as an insult or as a comparison with the people of Greece who have fallen into actual poverty, but more as an attack on the way the previous governments handled fiscal matters that eventually led to their doom (like you said). The poor people now are only insofar to blame as they tolerated and repeatedly elected these incompetent crooks, while blaming and hating on the Germans, instead of embracing the things that the Germans (and Swiss and Swedes and Danes etc. etc.) did right when it comes to economic/fiscal policies.

The problem is that Germans and other Europeans haven't pressured Greek governments to enact policies similar to theirs. Quite the opposite. These countries were successful, not because of austerity, but because they made the investments in the infrastructure and social welfare necessary to sustain the economy. And have efficient tax systems. The former requires time and money, and the latter is much more likely with a Syriza government than it was with the "fiscal conservatives" previously in power.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yeah, empathy is fine but there are certain diseases for which you need to apply the thumbscrews and chemotherapy. Otherwise the patient is dead. The same thing goes for the Greek political crooks and tax evaders. If you do not crack down hard on them and show them how it's done, they will never change and learn. Even if you let Greece go bankrupt and relieve them of all debt, they will be at 200% debt levels again within a few decades and the same sh*t is here again.

I think your metaphor can be improved. Austerity is more similar to bloodletting: inefficient, outdated and, in extreme cases, mortal. You are a lost case.

Not if applied correctly and efficiently. It's a matter of opinion. We have seen where the alternative to saving has led: misery and doom for millions of people. If the affected countries would be more like Switzerland, this wouldn't happen.

lol