Opinion of Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden

[Antonio the Sixth]

These guys are heroes.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I have yet to hear a single principled left-wing argument against what these people did. And no "but paultards like them!" isn't a valid argument - nor is "but they harmed Obama's image!". Some people here are either machiavellians or utter hypocrites.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm not saying that this is a clear left/right issue. However, what I fail to see is how a genuine progressive could possibly disapprove of actions which did nothing except to expose a manifest and unacceptable abuse of power. Or alternatively, how a progressive with a conscience could possibly argue that spying on millions of everyday conversations is not a a manifest and unacceptable abuse of power. Have we really come to the point where the idea that there is a level of basic individual privacy that shouldn't be forsaken in the name of the "war on terror" isn't even defended by the left anymore?

Oakvale, I don't really give a crap about the personal worth of these people (well, unless they are Assange-level scumbags, which, AFAIK, they aren't). The only thing that matter is their actions, and in this case their actions were just and courageous.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Are we talking about the same thing? If listening to private phone conversations of people who aren't in any way suspected does not infringe on individual privacy, then what privacy is left exactly? I fail to see how "reading our Atlas PMs" would be much worse than that.

And please, cut it out with the strawmen. Nobody's talking about a "massive government conspiracy" or anything like that. You don't need to be a conspiracy nut to think there is something a bit wrong with what western governments have started doing since 9/11. Suddenly, the end justifies any means, even the most pointlessly intrusive and the most disregarding of rule of law. I don't care if the ultimate goal is the establishment of a fascist regime or if (as likely), it is just the fruit of stupid mind bent exclusively on appeasing the populace's irrational fears. Regardless of the goal, this is not a healthy path to follow if we want to live in a vibrant, modern democracy.