The Official Star Trek Thread

[Antonio the Sixth]

I've never really got myself into Star Trek, but I think I'd really enjoy it. I've seen some of the movies (First Contact was fantastic) and a couple episodes from TNG and Voyager. I'll try to watch more of TNG over the next few months.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Speaking of this, does anyone know where I could find TNG to stream? The ideal for me would be English with English subtitles, but English with French or Italian subtitles would work as well.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Speaking of this, does anyone know where I could find TNG to stream? The ideal for me would be English with English subtitles, but English with French or Italian subtitles would work as well.

Anyone?

[Antonio the Sixth]

I've finished season 1, and I quite liked it. It's obviously pretty goofy (embarrassingly so in the first episodes) but still viewable and a few gimmicks are even genuinely enjoyable. The plots are still a bit basic, but some are truly excellent at the conceptual level (Justice, Hide And Q, Datalore, Heart of Glory, The Arsenal of Freedom, Symbiosis). Some are godawful obviously ("Code of Honor", oh pleeeeeeeeeeeease) and some are underexploited (I was really interested in seeing more of that matriarchal society in Angel One), but they can easily be skipped to only keep in mind the most worthwhile ones.

The characters are fine too. Picard is pure awesomeness obviously (I Patrick Stewart). He can be extremely irritating (like his ridiculous Prime Directive integralism... I thought the P.D. was only there for Enterprise captains to violate it ) but that's part of what makes him a well built character. Data is also EXCELLENT, by far the most interesting member of the crew. Crusher, Troy and Worf are both well-built characters who find their own role in the plots. I'll always regret they didn't develop Yar more before killing her off, because her character definitely had the potential to be a great addition - despite their professed egalitarian premise the writers seemed to remain caught in 80s gender roles to some level. Geordi also needs some development, but he has time for it. Finally, I have to say I don't get the hate on Wesley I've seen both here and on TV Tropes. I was expecting much worse from a teen in a somewhat goofy 80s show - in fact, he often contributes a good deal to the plot and is rarely acting immaturely or being clueless about everything. He's not really necessary to the show, but I fail to see how he would be a nuisance either.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Just realized I didn't even mention Riker. Anyway, he's all right, maybe a bit generic so far, but I'm sure he has time to develop.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I was expecting much worse from a teen in a somewhat goofy 80s show - in fact, he often contributes a good deal to the plot and is rarely acting immaturely or being clueless about everything.

Wasn't a frequent criticism of Wesley that he seemed a bit too perfect (/lacked any flaws) and happened to save the day while the rest of the crew looked incompetent?

Of course, that only applied to Season 1 & 2 Wesley, because he was increasingly depicted as a flawed character, starting with the Season 3 opener ("Evolution"). Not to mention what happened with him after he entered the Academy...

Yeah, it's true that he seemed a bit too smart and competent at times, but there are only a few episode plots which are really solved by him. And besides, the "immature self-centered teen" has become such a cliché nowadays that I find it refreshing to see a young character who actually isn't an idiot or a douchebag. But I can see why he can be annoying.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Wesley is sometimes naive though, for example in that episode about that virtual-reality game which Riker brings back from Risa and Wesley says: "Why would anyone take drugs ? I don't understand this."

It was even more forced in Season 1's Symbiosis, if you can recall the scene between Yar and Wesley. You have to keep in mind that that was at the height of the "Just Say No" era. (I'd say the message was apparent in The Naked Now as well.)

Honestly, I found the treatment of drug addiction in Symbiosis to be quite good compared to the "Just Say No" propaganda I've seen everywhere in 80s media. It's refreshing to at least see the issue explored under the light of economic interests and exploitation for once, rather than getting once again the usual petty-bourgeois moralistic tale based on idiotic notions of personal virtue. The plot could have been much improved of course, but it's definitely not your "Just Say No" episode. Obviously, The Naked Now was just worthless padding.

I'm glad you've started watching and enjoying the show. You don't have to worry about character development; that'll happen over time. Tasha Yar was written out of the show because the actress who player her (Denise Crosby) wanted to quit the show. Season 2 will have some considerable changes: Riker's appearance, Ten-Forward, and the introduction of Dr. Pulaski and Guinan (the latter played excellently by Whoopi Goldberg). Just wait until you get to Q Who.

I'm SO looking forward to all this! From what you guys are saying about season 3 and on, it's really going to be a unique experience. Q Who is the episode that introduces the Borg right? If so, I really can't wait. I first discovered Star Trek with the First Contact movie (and I was a kid!), so let's just say I really love the Borg. I can't wait to see Picard struggling with them once again, before he became as cynical and desperate as we see him in First contact.

From what I read on TV Tropes, Crosby left because she thought her character didn't have much to do, which is a shame because the premise for it was fairly interesting.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Antonio: Glad you found Next Gen! Haha, "Code of Honor" is objectively horrible, as is "Angel One." While Gene was noted for "progressivism," both of those are pretty regressive, I'd say, and just objectively atrocious social commentary. Unintentionally funny and amusing is the best that can be said about them. "Heart of Glory" was great, though.

I wouldn't call Angel One horrible, just depressingly half-assed. They got a good premise, had characters that could have made it convincing... and decided that instead of showing what the premise would result in, they decided to just waste minutes talking about stuff we barely or never actually experience onscreen. It's all one giant Informed Attribute-fest. To be honest, I think "sexy suit" idea is the only thing they got right - it looks ridiculous, but that was the point (just like, as any woman will tell you, the amount of fanservice in ads and popular culture looks utterly ridiculous). But even then, they wasted everything by having Riker be just totally fine with it (missing the whole point of depicting a matriarchy) and the president-leader-whatever be just so eager to see what a "strong man" looks like. It's not inherently bad, it's just one giant missed opportunity.

Code of Honor is obviously a disgrace, I actually had a hard time believing they were able to pull that off, even in the 1980s. I read that the guy who was responsible for it got fired soon after though, so I guess the staff got a clue.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Halfay through season 2, it's really living up to expectations. Sure, a couple episodes were obvious padding, but most of them are still captivating and a couple of them are really well thought ("The Measure of a Man" might be the best episode I've seen so far).

[Antonio the Sixth]

First Contact was a great movie, period. The Borg worked as a perfect villain and the ending with the actual first contact was awesome. I loved almost every minute of it. The only issue I had with the movie was the introduction of the Borg Queen. Although she was a good plot point for the movie, I felt that was a terrible decision in the larger scheme of things. To me, the Borg should not have a leader, as it is a hive mentality (I'll give a pass for Locutus, as he was meant to be humanity's introduction to the Borg).

Yeah, First Contact was fantastic. It's actually the first thing I've ever seen about Star Trek, and it sure left a strong impression (and it gets even better when you grow up). The Borg are some of the greatest scifi villiains ever conceived. Though yeah, I agree that I could have done without the Borg Queen.

Generations has several dumb moments, a plot that doesn't entirely make sense, and an ending that pissed off a lot of people, but personally I still found it enjoyable. That's probably because I don't have an emotional connection to TOS and its characters - so if you do have one, consider yourself warned.

I still have to watch Insurrection and Nemesis, though I'll probably skip the former seeing how everybody seems to consider it utterly forgettable.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Well, I just finished season 2, so it seems like the -real- stuff is about to begin.

Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

But anyway, now I'm looking to be impressed.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Well, I just finished season 2, so it seems like the -real- stuff is about to begin.

Besides a few good episodes like "Q who", the season's ending was pretty dull. The last episode in particular was an utter mockery. It's easy to see they had to rush in to complete it.

But anyway, now I'm looking to be impressed.

Was that the one with the evil bugs that latched onto people and mind-controlled them (or was that the season 1 finale?) and had a plan to take over the Federation? I always found it funny how they never followed up on that plotline.

No, it was the one where 90% of the episode consists of replaying scenes of previous episodes where Riker gets in trouble.

I actually enjoyed the one with alien bugs (though the story would certainly have been a lot more solid if it was an actual coup by Starfleet's high command).

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm halfway through Season 3 now, and I can definitely see that it's getting better. "The Survivors" was truly amazing, it's my new favorite now. It really knew how to build up an atmosphere of mystery and uneasiness, and the final reveal really brings shudders. "The Ensigns of Command" (aka "Data learns to play politics"), "Who Watches the Watchers" and "The Defector" were also excellent. Most of the others were also solid. I'm really excited about what's up next!

Though I'm a bit disappointed that the Borg haven't made their second appearance yet. I know the season finale is the famous two-parter that features them, but I though they would appear at least once between "Q Who" and then...

[Antonio the Sixth]

Just saw The Best of Both Worlds. Yup, the Borg really rule. Easily one of the coolest alien foes in the history of SciFi. The concept is really clever, and, despite the still lacking special effect, it's executed to a terrifying effect. Every time you hear "resistance is futile" or "X is irrelevant" it will bring chills to your spine. And it was great to see the team struggle to work without their captain, with stakes as high as the fate of Earth itself. I actually really liked Riker in the role of captain, even though I never was a fan of his (nothing against him, I just don't find him as interesting as Data or Worf). I can see why this episode is so liked, and I'm glad I finally got to see what is essentially the prequel to the amazing First Contact.

The second part of season 3 has some other great episodes. Sins of the Father really struck me for the surprisingly dark ending, which really clashes with the spirit of the series but conveys a very good message (corruption exists in every society) and is very powerful emotionally. Yesterday's Enterprise was also fascinating, as well-crafted "alternate reality" scenarios always are, plus it was nice to see Tasha Yar back. Hollow Pursuits creeped me out a bit for the way it explored the more dangerous potentialities of the holodeck (and thankfully without resorting to yet another malfunction ). If people today have already started living in a fantasy world due to videogames and the internet, just imagine how bad it will get once we reach this technology. I also loved The Most Toys, because Data is the best.

On the other hand, can we please stop throwing a Ferengi in every other episode? They are so f**king annoying, who thought it was a good idea to have these clowns as recurring antagonists in a supposedly serious show?

[Antonio the Sixth]

I don't mind the concept of an ultra-capitalist alien society (using alien societies to represents the extremes of human behavior is often what Star Trek does best), but couldn't they be at least a little bit less cartoonish? It's impossible to take them seriously even when they actually happen to be in a threatening position in the episode. And besides, it's utterly ridiculous that the Federation and the Enterprise crew continues to grant them favors and allow them to frequently participate in their negotiations even after the Ferengi have tried to screw them over literally every time. At this point, they deserve to be scammed.

BTW, I'm sure Donald Trump would have nothing to object about women being naked, either.

[Antonio the Sixth]

On the other hand, can we please stop throwing a Ferengi in every other episode? They are so f**king annoying, who thought it was a good idea to have these clowns as recurring antagonists in a supposedly serious show?

Because they were originally supposed to me the main alien antagonists of TNG and it took the writing team time to realize they weren't up to the job. It's why we got the Borg and the Cardassians as replacements.

By Season 3 it's already pretty clear they're not supposed to be the "main antagonists". The episodes they appear in are almost always the most lighthearted. Which would be fine if there weren't 5-10 of those scattered among the 26.

"The Best of Both Worlds, Part 1" is great, though I think even better when viewed in the context of the time it was aired.  In 1990, Star Trek had never had a season cliffhanger before.  For that matter, season cliffhangers like that weren't as common on television in general as they would become later in the decade, so it was a bit of a shock to me when there were two minutes left in the hour with no resolution in sight…leading up to "Mr. Worf….fire".

Yes, that definitely was one of the best moments in the series. Really added depth to Riker's character.

[Antonio the Sixth]

On another note, what movie did you think was the best? 

First Contact is the first Star Trek thing I ever watched, and, even upon rewatching it and trying to remove the nostalgia filter, it's still my favorite film by far. Wrath of Khan was excellent too, though I admit I originally missed some of its depths (watching it as a kid, it's hard to get past those ear slug monstrosities ). I also really liked The Undiscovered Country for its (somewhat heavy-handed but still pertinent) political commentary.

I have yet to see The Voyage Home (I'll admit that the weird premise is a bit of a turnoff for me...). I've also seen Generations, which I think is fine overall, though a bit slow and surprisingly lighthearted for being the episode when Kirk dies. No interest in seeing 1, 3 and certainly not 5. I'll probably get around to watching Insurrection and Nemesis once I'm done with the show.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I too watched Wrath of Kahn when I was young.  The ear creatures are arguably the most terrifying things in Star Trek other than the Borg.

Yup. It is pretty weird that the few Star Trek stuff I saw in my childhood (First Contact, Wrath of Khan, and also the fairly creepy Voyager pilot) are some of the darkest in the franchise.

Antonio if you're willing to give the Ferengi more of a shot, DS9 does a really great job with them. To the point of their society being significantly reformed by the end of it and the Ferengi characters of the cast are amazing standouts. (Slightly spoilery but whatever. It's how they get there that matters.)

No problem. I'm looking forward to watching DS9 as well, though it probably won't be very soon.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yeah, those episodes you mention were all excellent. Glad to see Worf will have a chance to get his (and hopefully his father's) honor back eventually - but please don't say more about that.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Just saw The Voyage Home. It was entertaining, but not nearly as engaging as the other movies I saw. The plot was contrived and never properly explained, and despite the supposedly high stakes, there is little to no actual tension. Most of the movie is spent making fun of the Enterprise Crew (and especially Spock)'s culture shock living in the 80s, or setting up gags related to the way they get around to getting the stuff they need without looking like madmen or criminals. Fortunately, these parts are often pretty funny. Still, I have to give it a meh.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Personally, I've only seen three Star Trek moves (the TNG movies except Generations). I've always figured that it's be better to see the TOS movies after actually watching TOS. I haven't reached that point yet.

I don't plan on watching TOS, tbh. I might try out one or two episodes some days, but it just strikes me as too "old" and corny to take seriously. Even with TNG, the corniness is just barely tame enough to be enjoyable and not distract me from the substance of the episode.

As for TOS movies, I've now seen all the "good" ones (2, 4 and 6). They're pretty good overall, with Wrath of Khan definitely having the most well-conceived plot and some really memorable scenes ("KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!" aside ). I also enjoyed The Undiscovered Country, a nice parallel to the events that were occurring at the same time in real-life.

[Antonio the Sixth]

IMO, the visual effects in The Original Series are so bad by now as to kind of detract. A few years ago there were special editions that seriously upgraded exterior scenes and effects sequences, and I understand they are pretty good. The set designs are wonderfully cheesy and the stories are actually pretty good. I'd recommend a few very good episodes to get a taste of it - "The Immunity Syndrome," "The Galileo Seven," "The Doomsday Machine," "Shore Leave," and a few others. Of course if anyone liked Wrath of Khan, you need to see "Space Seed," which was very well done. TOS is widely regarded as being at its best during its 2nd season, although there are some 1st season gems.

Sure, I'll have a look at those some day.

Not until I still have 4 seasons of TNG and 7 of DS9 to catch up with, though.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I've been slowly advancing through TNG (currently I'm in the middle of season 4) and I love it. In some respects it hasn't aged very well, but it's still very enjoyable. Really memorable characters.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Philosophy and idealism are the best thing about Star Trek.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I'm holding out hope that some day they'll make reboot movies for TNG. There's definitely room for expansion of that universe and characters. Picard, Data and Worf are excellent characters, and the Borg are one of the best concept for a villain ever.