Maine's Question 1

[Phony Moderate]

In my opinion, libertarians shouldn't support state's rights. What's the logic in taking away the right of the federal government to dictate your life, and giving that right to the states?

[Phony Moderate]

The Republican Party has been hijacked by morons like Rush Limbaugh, George W. Bush, and Sarah Palin, who are three of the least conservative people in America. Barry Goldwater was an honest man who believed in the seperation of church and state, and the Republican Party should base itself around his ideals again (although, ditch the war-mongering).

[Phony Moderate]

Why does anyone care about this ballot measure?

Why does everyone care about the New Jersey and Virginia Gubernatorial Elections?

[Phony Moderate]

And the moral of this story is:

Civil Unions with full benefits = Win!

That wasn't what the Yes campaign was based on, it was based on incoherent fear tactics arguing that gay marriage is somehow going to be a class taught in school or that parents are going to have to explain to their kids the details of anal sex.

The No campaign seemed to do everything right from what I saw on the surface, I wonder where things broke down.  It could just be that despite not being that religious, Maine is still rural and Catholic and it was a special election and all that jazz was just literally impossible to overcome.

Liberals need to be less timid about calling the Right "liars" when they are.  Not Joe Wilson style.  But calmly and methodically point out reality:  the Right's real case is too weak so they lie.

I do not believe that's the right strategy.  That was part of the No On 8 campaign's mistake.

Remember, only some of the electorate was "persuaded" by the campaign messaging, No On 8 clearly had better ads that were unafraid to aggressively tackle the Yes side's strengths head-on.  Mostly it was about getting your saints to turn out better than the other side's saints.

Although i personally liked it, it was the Mormon ad that probably lost "No on 8" the election.

[Phony Moderate]

Why does anyone care about this ballot measure?

Why does everyone care about the New Jersey and Virginia Gubernatorial Elections?

Because they are meaningful. Now answer my damn question.

This is meaningful too.

[Phony Moderate]

Why does anyone care about this ballot measure?

Why does everyone care about the New Jersey and Virginia Gubernatorial Elections?

Because they are meaningful. Now answer my damn question.

This is meaningful too.

Explain how this affects anyone.

The now worthless gay people in Maine.

[Phony Moderate]

Why does anyone care about this ballot measure?

Why does everyone care about the New Jersey and Virginia Gubernatorial Elections?

Because they are meaningful. Now answer my damn question.

This is meaningful too.

Explain how this affects anyone.

Explain how gay marriage affects anyone?  Seriously?

I am going to get you and your wife divorced, whether you like it or not. And you are not allowed to visit her in hospital when she's sick, etc

[Phony Moderate]

Why does anyone care about this ballot measure?

Why does everyone care about the New Jersey and Virginia Gubernatorial Elections?

Because they are meaningful. Now answer my damn question.

This is meaningful too.

Explain how this affects anyone.

The now worthless gay people in Maine.

What makes gay people in Maine worthless, or any different in worth to any humans anywhere else?

The fact that they don't have equal rights and liberty to straight people.

[Phony Moderate]

Why does anyone care about this ballot measure?

Why does everyone care about the New Jersey and Virginia Gubernatorial Elections?

Because they are meaningful. Now answer my damn question.

This is meaningful too.

Explain how this affects anyone.

The now worthless gay people in Maine.

What makes gay people in Maine worthless, or any different in worth to any humans anywhere else?

The fact that they don't have equal rights and liberty to straight people.

How do they not have equal rights and liberties? A gay man has the option to marry women. A straight man has the option to marry women. Same for women. No rights are given to one group over the other.

But they don't have the right to marry the person they love.

[Phony Moderate]

Why does anyone care about this ballot measure?

Why does everyone care about the New Jersey and Virginia Gubernatorial Elections?

Because they are meaningful. Now answer my damn question.

This is meaningful too.

Explain how this affects anyone.

The now worthless gay people in Maine.

What makes gay people in Maine worthless, or any different in worth to any humans anywhere else?

The fact that they don't have equal rights and liberty to straight people.

How do they not have equal rights and liberties? A gay man has the option to marry women. A straight man has the option to marry women. Same for women. No rights are given to one group over the other.

But they don't have the right to marry the person they love.

Neither do I, depending on who I love.

Strawman.

[Phony Moderate]

Why does anyone care about this ballot measure?

Why does everyone care about the New Jersey and Virginia Gubernatorial Elections?

Because they are meaningful. Now answer my damn question.

This is meaningful too.

Explain how this affects anyone.

The now worthless gay people in Maine.

What makes gay people in Maine worthless, or any different in worth to any humans anywhere else?

The fact that they don't have equal rights and liberty to straight people.

How do they not have equal rights and liberties? A gay man has the option to marry women. A straight man has the option to marry women. Same for women. No rights are given to one group over the other.

But they don't have the right to marry the person they love.

Neither do I, depending on who I love.

Strawman.

Cute, coming from you.

Thanks.

You can argue that all individuals have equal rights, but all groups certainly don't.

[Phony Moderate]

America: Land of the free, home of the brave, unless they are part of the evil "homosexual agenda".

Or black, Latino, female, libertarian, liberal, anti-war, pro-equality, a fan of Michael Jackson, a freedom lover, a porn star, or a good looking person.

[Phony Moderate]

I'd also like to say that i wish the guy in my screen name was the President. Obama is proving himself to be a puppet of the Christian Establishment.

[Phony Moderate]

And to think that Maine voted for the libertarian Republican Arnold Vinick in The West Wing.

[Phony Moderate]

Everyone talking about the results is missing one thing. This was not a turnout issue. Turnout was substantially greater than in the 2006 general election and was well over 60% of registered voters, and  I doubt Young voters or Democrats stayed home much at all. There are no similarities between Maine and what happened in New Jersey and Virginia.

 In fact, I would argue that had you told the NO campaign two days ago they would get 270,000+ votes they would have been overjoyed and expected a ten to twelve point win.  The real problem here had nothing to do with enthuisasm or base turnout. It had to do with the utter failure of the NO campaign to make headway in the traditionally Democratic but socially conservative places like Lewiston. A democrat can not lose Lewiston by 20 points and win an election in Maine. They ran a campaign focused on running up the margin in Cumberland county and hoped for regular off-year turnout everywhere else. They succeeded in the first and failed in the latter.

This realy does reinforce however how different Cumberland county is from the rest of Maine. Without Cumberland, Maine is the poorest state in the Union, and it has more in common with suburban Massachusetts than with the rest of Maine. Look at the results in Portland, Cape Elizabeth, Brunswick, 71%, 68% and 65% NO. The big divide was not age or partisan politics but class. The elite have a consensus in favor of Gay Marriage, but it was not spead outside that elite, even to Democrats or Young Voters who might otherwise be attracted to it.

Old people tend to vote in large numbers for things like this, as they are more religious than any other age group.

[Phony Moderate]

I was hoping you'd chime in on this JSojourner ol' pal. ;-)

well, when it come to JSJ, when the going gets tough, JSJ deserts the bible so that he can retain the favor of the world, using the sole excuse of, "I can not accept..."...and even though the bible goes to great lengths to define the proper context for sex, to JSJ, there is no biblical defined context for sex, instead it's anything goes and the love of Jesus will cover it all.  In which case, might as well take a Magic Marker and black out all the references to sex in the bible, for, apparently, the bible doesn't teach the proper setting for sex.

It is obvious to anyone that the bible gives the proper context for sex, but homosexuality proponents will NEVER use that argument because they know they would lose that argument hands down.  So, instead they've made a conscience choice to ignore that context and appeal to the love of God....but, that is pure idolatry because God's love is NEVER an excuse for condoning wrong doing.

The Bible is my favorite fictional book and God is my favorite fictional character.

[Phony Moderate]

You'd be lucky if you were half the man JS is, jmfcst.

Please don't mock jmfcst for standing up for the truth that is the Bible that is God's Word.

Bible Basher.