Are we underestimating Palin? (user search)
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  Are we underestimating Palin? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Are we underestimating Palin?  (Read 7763 times)
pbrower2a
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« on: June 12, 2009, 05:07:25 PM »

I wouldn't oppose to having her as President. She would be 1000 times better then Mr. Obama.

Barry Goldwater without the visionary qualities.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2009, 11:05:12 PM »

?

Obama had some bad interviews, but his best wasn't in the same league as her best, displayed here.  His worst isn't in the same universe as her worst, displayed in the Couric interviews I rewatched a few weeks ago.  I couldn't imagine a candidate for mayor of my hometown (population: 3,000) sounding so utterly incompetent.

Obama has no history of hiring bad people to represent him, quite the opposite in fact.

He's acted presidential since his 2004 DNC speech.

?

Obama is good at talking the talk, but look at his cabinet picks, three or four of them had to step down or had tax problems, that is doing a good job at picking the people around you. Also, Obama has never ran anything in his life before, unlike Sarah who ran a city and is currently running a state.

And it will matter in 2012, why?


It won't because Obama isn't going to win in 2012.

Oh, really?

In 2012 Obama will either run on his record successfully or try to run from it and fail. It is that simple. All that suggests that Obama will have a more difficult time in winning the Presidency than his substandard predecessor will be a rise in the standards -- standards that would now flunk such a poseur as Dubya.  Obama will have raised those standards.

So far about the only dissent that one can have with the Obama Administration is that one dislikes his ideology and prefers that of Dubya. That's not enough unless the President is a commie, fascist, or theocrat. His diplomacy is far more effective. He has set new standards -- better ones -- for the conduct of soldiers in the field and for the treatment of those who end up as our captives. He is a superb rhetorician and orator, and that has proved a core determiner of whether a President succeeds or fails. He is decisive. His language has little room for ambiguity; he says what he means and he means what he says. That's the lawyer in him; he recognizes the necessity for clarity.

So far he shows more signs of a great President than of a poor one. Strange things can happen, but anyone who expects Obama to fail as President must expect strange things to happen.

We have had our economic meltdown -- the result of a corrupt boom that left millions with worthless or compromised assets. Of course, Obama can do nothing to recover the once-bloated speculative values of assets... but he can set economic objectives that allow people to rebuild wealth in other ways.



Big government spending may be the most reliable way, with benefits trickling through contractors to employees.  So it was in the New Deal era, and FDR got away with economic growth that never could recapture the heady days of illusory prosperity as in the late 1920's:

   

If you look at years "3 to 8 (1932-1937)" for the gray line, you get to see what FDR got away with.  Those are recovery years. He won re-election in a landslide in the seventh year. Then came a sort of crash and another recovery. Try those with Obama and see whether people will find things adequate -- if not perfect.

Maybe we will have to live as if it were the 1950s again, only without Jim Crow, Joe McCarthy, the Red Scare, and the blatant anti-feminism of the time. Housing will be more affordable, and savings rates will be higher. Economic inequality will be less severe. We won't scrap later technologies (including medical technologies that can extend life if we don't throw them away with obesity and street drugs), but we will find that furnishing the affordable housing won't be so cheap. We maybe priced out of many imports that have gutted jobs and drained wealth from our country. That's not all bad; we would be better off without stuff that goes from China through Wal*Mart to our homes and then the landfill when they break or go obsolete. .   
 
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2009, 02:27:17 PM »

Everyone is underestimating her. Did any ever think Obama would be president ? NO.

Of course there's a huge difference in such matters as rhetorical power, effectiveness in establishing a campaign apparatus, choosing places in which to campaign, fund raising, exuding optimism, establishing an agenda, damage control, and the like.

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She is not a retard. She has serious flaws that establish her obvious limits as a leader. Bad interviews? She gave more than her share -- and she failed to undo the damage. She looked like a political choice that had superficial attractiveness and a semblance of strategic value but proved all in all to be a blunder. The Republican Party is not that short of talent, and John McCain could have chosen someone more suited to the role of President in the event of you-know-what.  Think of Dick Lugar, who had experience as a big city mayor and a Senator and has been well-regarded as both.

So she isn't a liberal? So what? Conservatism is not dead in America. But if we are to get a conservative, at least let that conservative have some quality as a political figure.   

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Unfair? Conservative media such as FoX Propaganda Channel and the Weekly Standard trash just about anyone liberal. When the issue is "too liberal" one has ideology. When the issue is basic competence, that is another issue altogether.

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Sure, she is -- she can show herself to be the political fool that the McCain people had to put on a short leash.

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The Peter Principle (in any hierarchy a person tends to rise to his/her level of incompetence) has shown that she had better be content with Governor of Alaska.

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It is very difficult to change one's intellectual style in one's forties. She seemed very unreflective, shooting from the hip... a bad trait in international politics.

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Oh, yes some things are -- especially the word "loser".

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Believe what you want. She has been exposed as a scatterbrain who would offend 55% of America at the least.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2009, 12:07:36 PM »

From the responses in this thread, the answer is an uncategorical yes.  The problem with liberals is that they live in a bubble-world where everything they perceive is reality, and when confronted with the facts they answer, "Reality has a liberal bias."  The myth that "Sarah Palin destroyed the McCain campaign" needs to die.  Palin single-handedly saved the McCain campaign and attracted unprecedented crowds for a vice-presidential candidate.  When Palin was picked, the donations to the McCain campaign wouldn't stop coming.  For once, the attention was on the Republican candidate, and the playing field was leveled.  The real damage to the McCain campaign came when the economy collapsed and he could not distance himself from Bush.

The fault isn't her intelligence; the fault is her lack of political maturity. She was able to appeal to the base, as is shown in the fundraising.  John McCain was close to winning the election going into September -- one big goof by Obama from winning. Nothing says that such a goof was forthcoming, but nothing says that it wasn't. She became a brittle target for the Democrats due to her Kerry-like statement in which she said "Thanks but no thanks" to the funding of the so-called "Bridge to Nowhere" as evidence of fiscal restraint... only to show that she found other uses for the budgeted funds. Her "Real America" nonsense energized the opposite base. Sure, there was more that wrecked McCain's candidacy, including the fervent right-wing rhetoric during the Republican National Convention, rhetoric  more strident than anything before associated with McCain. People had to wonder whether they were voting for John McCain or for a maintenance of a Hard Right ideology -- but Sarah Palin didn't know when to shut up. Some things are best left unsaid.

A wiser Republican nominee for Vice President -- let's say Richard Lugar -- would have made far fewer mistakes, would have delivered a state that McCain absolutely had to win (Indiana), and might have played well in some states fairly similar to Indiana in their politics -- Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina, and perhaps Iowa and Wisconsin. He would have been fare more effective as a campaigner because nobody would have had to keep him from saying something unwise. 

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Ronald Reagan is a good parallel.

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She got her fifteen minutes of fame and mishandled it. She showed her level of incompetence as a leader. She left no doubt about her inadequacy for the greatest responsibility as Vice-President: to be ready to take over the Presidency in the event of the Unthinkable.

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That was a whopper! Even if it were a joke, she created more questions about her wisdom and the relevance of any claims to any special expertise on foreign affairs. It had been shown that she had little experience in foreign travel. Had she ever visited Russia? No. Did she know any conversational Russian? No. Had she ever hosted a Russian delegation in Alaska? Never. About the only cultural connection that she could have had to Russia was to have heard some music by Tchaikovsky. She probably believed that Fyodor Dostoevsky was a KGB chief and that Lev Tolstoy was a political associate of Lenin. She has probably never been inside a Russian Orthodox Church -- in a state that was Russian territory until 1867.  


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See above.

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No, she is a mediocrity. You can tolerate a mediocrity doing a very routine job -- but nothing so complicated as surgery or diplomacy.

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In every 'quiet time' immediately after a Convention, the Party that just held the convention gets a so-called "bump". During the week of the convention, the other Party gets little attention while all journalistic attention is focused on the Convention. There was no gap between the Democratic National Convention and the Republican National Convention, so the Democrats never got the "bump" in which they looked as if they were about to make Texas a swing state, but the Republicans got theirs.

But let's remember the definitive answer to the question of how and why Obama won. It was number 43, and that is not a reference to a highway between Green Bay and Milwaukee. After eight years of the most deceitful, corrupt, incoherent, and incompetent President in American history we were ready for the antithesis.   

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Liberals are more tolerant of liberal bumbling and bromides; conservatives are more tolerant of conservative bumbling and bromides.

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Obama now has the tools with which to make electoral dominance of the Democratic Party possible. He controls the agenda, and he seems to handle that role far better than did Dubya. 

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Huckabee is a right-wing populist at a time in which such can win only in the South. Romney is a corporatist whose cultural ties mostly are to parts of the country in which he has little chance of winning in the general election. Palin can win the Republican base of Christian Fundamentalists, but that is not enough.

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We won't have a five-year economic meltdown. Obama is likely to get political capital from an economic turnaround that cannot quickly return America to the heady days of a speculative boom again. Obvious economic progress from a lower level -- mostly the result of people doing things that create wealth before they create the possibility of personal indulgence -- will be enough. High inflation? We have no chance of an overheated economy for the next few years. International turmoil? A reduction would aid Obama greatly, and his administration began with international turmoil at a very high point (our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan; genocide in Sudan; and nuke programs in Iran and North Korea). 

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True! Ideological warriors are always high-risk propositions.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2009, 09:51:03 PM »

From the responses in this thread, the answer is an uncategorical yes.  The problem with liberals is that they live in a bubble-world where everything they perceive is reality, and when confronted with the facts they answer, "Reality has a liberal bias."  The myth that "Sarah Palin destroyed the McCain campaign" needs to die.  Palin single-handedly saved the McCain campaign and attracted unprecedented crowds for a vice-presidential candidate.  When Palin was picked, the donations to the McCain campaign wouldn't stop coming.  For once, the attention was on the Republican candidate, and the playing field was leveled.  The real damage to the McCain campaign came when the economy collapsed and he could not distance himself from Bush.

The perception does not result from "liberals living in bubbles". The slogan that "reality has a liberal bias" arises when reality proves the Right... wrong. When people let their superstitions and narrow special interests pose as the ultimate reality they invite contradictions by reality that has no such bias.

Sarah Palin may not have single-handedly destroyed her running mate's campaign. More happened. One was that the Republican Party itself remained loyal to the policies of a failed President and to narrow special interests that have become very unpopular over eight years. The bigwigs at the Republican National Convention offered more of the same even while John McCain promised reform.

She drew crowds of people who were never going to vote for any liberal and offered them red meat; the media related that to the rest of us. She attracted money to the GOP but she didn't attract votes.

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Don't forget her insults of liberals that make her offend so many people.


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And that quip was a disaster. It forced people to think of whether she was the real deal or a token. Add to that some of the sleaziness of her dealings and the questionable private lives of her family members.  
 

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Sarah Palin is a mediocrity. She gave one fine speech and started recycling it. She tore into Obama, but she couldn't keep doing so without compromising her credibility. Any lead that McCain had over Obama was short-lived -- the so-called "bump" that usually follows a Convention when the other Party has yet to respond. Usually those "bumps" are transitory, which shows.

The economy made the difference between a JFK 1960 squeaker and a Clinton 1992 near-landslide. I followed the polls closely, and I saw them go down steadily downward for McCain/Palin. Don't forget that the economy went into a tailspin because of the policies of George W. Bush; neither McCain nor Palin had a coherent plan for dealing with the economic meltdown.  

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She was not popular among moderates, as the electoral results show. It's hard to imagine anyone voting for the GOP ticket because she was on it -- except perhaps in Alaska.

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We shall see. The GOP base is not enough to win a Presidential election, just as the Democratic base (which is about the support for McGovern in 1972 or Mondale in 1984). The GOP base is not going to expand enough.

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If... if... if. No way does the economy recover the level of activity of the real estate boom of recent years. Any recovery will be slow.  High inflation? The conditions of our time do not allow a combination of high inflation and economic collapse. High gas prices?  Only in terms of a devalued dollar, a consequence of the choices that America's shareholders and executives made (underinvestment in plant and equipment, treatment of workers as expendable peons, and a tendency to export manufacturing activity abroad). International turmoil?  Sure -- if Obama makes things worse as Dubya did.

Sarah Palin is not the new Ronald Reagan, mind you.

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Win at what level? Most ideological warriors prove unpopular in a moderate America. Moderates -- not the liberal base of the Democrats or the right-wing base of the GOP -- decide who gets elected.

Sarah Palin is the Eliza Doolittle of American politics.
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