A landslide for the Republicans? (user search)
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  A landslide for the Republicans? (search mode)
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Author Topic: A landslide for the Republicans?  (Read 3450 times)
pbrower2a
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« on: September 30, 2011, 11:12:52 AM »

 President Obama is in statistical ties with Mitt Romney in Florida, North Carolina, and Ohio, which suggests no landslide either way.   Not this week.

I don't know why people are comparing this election to 1980. Obama isn't nearly as bad as Carter and he's much more charismatic. Plus, Romney/Perry aren't anywhere near as ikeable or exciting as Reagan.

Anyone who wishes to compare President Obama to President Carter needs remember the following:

1. Jimmy Carter had practically no legislative achievements. He had to make new, fresh promises to the electorate in 1980 and effectively took the role of the challenger by default. Such showed failure as President in one of the usual standards of a President. President Obama may have dubious achievements according to most Republicans -- but that's what liberals thought of Ronald Reagan in 1984. One can win while offending the opposing base, but one can't win by expanding the opponent's base.

2. Jimmy Carter relied heavily upon the South. Carter won in 1976 with states that may have voted for a Democratic nominee for the last time in at least 40 years by relying upon the votes of an odd coalition of blacks and conservative Democrats. That is over!

3. The Iranian hostage situation. President Obama apparently takes intelligence reports seriously and is unlikely to have such bad luck in the wake of negligence. President Obama does not tolerate slip-ups.

4. Carter tried to bring his much-touted experience as Governor of Georgia as a model for Washington, DC.  Does anyone remember Zero-based budgeting? Political realities made it impossible in the US government.  President Obama had no such pretensions. 

5. President Obama is about as slick a politician... as Ronald Reagan. He obviously isn't Ronald Reagan; he has huge regional weaknesses, as he is a d@mnyankee liberal who can't win in the Ozarks, Appalachians, or the Deep South. Freakish things would have to show up if President Obama were to win 500+ electoral votes, but that's not what we are discussing here.

6. President Obama is now running against Congressional Republicans for resiting any measures for economic relief other than "give everything to the super-rich and hope for the best". It would be better for Republicans to seek some compromise, except that the GOP is almost-completely bought. The 2010 election may have rescued President Obama by giving him villainous brass targets.

7. Carter got only 49 electoral votes in 1980. That is the worst performance by an incumbent President since Herbert Hoover. I look at the electoral map, and I can hardly see how the President gets anywhere near that few votes. California is one of the most D states, and the GOP would have to win over Mexican-Americans to win it. Such is highly-unlikely with the plutocratic and anti-intellectual stances of current Republicans. With New York and New Jersey the Hispanic populations are largely Puerto Rican... and they don't receive those Republican stances well. Hispanics may not be the stereotypical eggheads that Asians are, but their political leadership is clearly pro-teacher and pro-union. 55+29+14+98. Now add the President's home states (Illinois and Hawaii together - 24), DC, Vermont, and Massachusetts (enough said), Maryland (lots of government employees), and Michigan (essentially Minnesota or Wisconsin but with far more blacks). That is an absolute floor for President Obama, and that alone is 168 electoral votes right there even if the Republican wins 57% of the popular vote. He could be getting a margin of 2% of the vote, but such is the floor in those states. John McCain got 173 electoral votes. Give a random chance for Washington,  Oregon, Wisconsin, and Minnesota, and such is a reasonable floor for 2012.

President Obama can be defeated, but not as much as by which he won in electoral votes.   

8. It is the economy. But Republicans now have some culpability for any economic slowdown.

 
 
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2011, 10:29:59 PM »

8. It is the economy. But Republicans now have some culpability for any economic slowdown.

The American people have never blamed Congress instead of the President for the economy.  You're dreaming if you think that approach is going to work. 


Besides, you think the American people forget that Obama had 2 years of a super majority in Congress?  By Nov 2012 unemployment is going to be >10% and the deficit is going to be around $2T/year.

(Spelling errors or typos, and an inappropriate abbreviation altered. Please use spell-check!)

"It has never happened before" is not a valid excuse for denying the consequences of unprecedented reality. Everything that ever happens is a consequence of some combination of circumstance and random chance. Wait long enough, and anything not impossible will eventually happen. That's not to say that such will happen at a time and place of your convenience.

1. We have never seen one Party so seek the political demise of a President the other Party that it seeks an economic calamity to discredit him. Democrats wanted Herbert Hoover to succeed in getting out of the 1929-1932 meltdown. Republicans were satisfied adequately that Harry Truman was so awful that he could never be re-elected that the election of Thomas E. Dewey was a certainty. Democratic liberals thought Reagan awful -- but effective. Yes, we largely thought that Dubya was so bad that he could collapse on his own after America started to see some bad times in Afghanistan and Iraq instead of the quick, profitable wars. Even if those wars were either bungled, illegal, or both, we liberals wanted Dubya to succeed. 

2. If your side gets the economic collapse that propels your side into the super-majority of your dreams, then America is in deep trouble. Have you thought of how even more intense economic failure would look here? How certain are you that the Republicans with their current ideology can improve the economic realities of America for anyone without making conditions far worse? Sure, you could get more employment -- if people are obliged to take any employment on any terms and can leave only if their employers approve (that's the economic 'miracle' of the Third Reich; German toilers got no more than what their employers deemed absolutely necessary for bare sustenance, and that was highly unpopular in any country that fell under Nazi rule. The Soviet 'miracle' worked on a similar principle, and people knew enough to avoid complaining about it because the Gulag was worse).   

3. The President now gets far more respect than does Congress -- especially Republicans in Congress. Your favorite politicians get about 15% higher approval ratings than does Casey Anthony get for a Mother of the Year contest. Get it?

4. The Tea Party is extremely unpopular. Approval ratings for Governors Walker (Wisconsin), Snyder (Michigan), Kasich (Ohio), and Scott (Florida) are in the sewer because of extremism and dictatorial tendencies. So much for the rising tide of the Hard Right! If these fellows were so successful at convincing people in their states once elected of the merits of the Hard Right agenda, then you would have a case. People would be talking about them as the likely saviors of America and seeking to elect them and give them dictatorial powers.

5. Even with the President's approval ratings around 40% he was often leading all putative Republican challengers in some states (at times Florida, North Carolina, and Ohio) that the Republican nominee absolutely can't afford to lose. If the President were so awful he would be losing all over those states instead of being close. Any republican with any level of political acumen could offer some credible alternative. Do you see that? "Anyone but Obama" is no program.

6. Deficits are little more than accounting entries in a Depression.  They are then inevitable and necessary; they are corrections that raise incomes and create more of a tax base. In this "Little Depression" -- this is not the sort of recession that you knew could possibly know in full unless you are about 85 -- the deficits are going to do more good than harm.       



     
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pbrower2a
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Posts: 26,921
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2011, 09:59:59 AM »

8. It is the economy. But Republicans now have some culpability for any economic slowdown.

The American people have never blamed Congress instead of the President for the economy.  You're dreaming if you think that approach is going to work. 


Besides, you think the American people forget that Obama had 2 years of a super majority in Congress?  By Nov 2012 unemployment is going to be >10% and the deficit is going to be around $2T/year.

(Spelling errors or typos, and an inappropriate abbreviation altered. Please use spell-check!)

(my stuff deleted for brevity)
     

I don't think Obama can hold a candle to Harry Truman.  As the old saying goes " I knew Harry Truman, and Barack Obama is no Harry Truman" 

Truman was far more accomplished and smarter than Obama is at this stage of his life and service. 

I just think its naive to think that just because Truman barely survived re-election, that means that Obama will just barely survive re-election.

When, in fact, it proves that despite Truman's accomplishments, he just BARELY survived. 

Now compare Truman to Obama, and there is no comparison, Obama will lose under the same circumstances if he was in Truman's place. 

The fact is that GOOD Presidents get re-elected, and Dumb Presidents don't get re-elected. 

Jimmy Carter and GHWB were just incapable of serving the all encompassing role and responsibilities of the presidency.  In fact, I would argue that Carter and Bush 1, were just plain lucky to win the presidency in the first place, NOT on their own merits, but based on National circumstances that had nothing to do with them, but other politicians. 

Carter (1 term governor) became the "Evangelical Savior" after the Nixon/Ford criminal debacle. 

GHWB became president solely on riding the coattails of Ronald Reagan's popularity. 

Barack Obama became the poster boy for the "Anti-Bush/Anti-War" crowd, and his election was more of a repudiation of the Iraq War, than anything Obama did in his professional service or personal life. 

All 3 of these men were not prepared to handle the crises of the presidency, but won based on luck in being at the right place at the right time. 

One thing that President Obama is not is "dumb". You might have more of a case if you were to say that the President drew the wrong conclusions from his learning as Herbert Hoover and Jimmy Carter were both technically trained and poor fits for the Presidency; both were brilliant, but both had the wrong learning for the Presidency. The astronomer Neil DeGrasse Tyson is a brilliant fellow, but he would be an incompetent politician. Richard Nixon had most of the traits that make a superb politician, but he had some questionable characteristics that manifested themselves in the moral failures of his Administration.

Barack Obama is unique among the Presidents of the United States. People can see anything that they want in him; they can see FDR if they wish and they can see Jimmy Carter. If they despise his policies and ideology they see him as Jimmy Carter or Herbert Hoover.

The 2010 election suggests the 1946 election and Harry Truman, a politician that the Republicans thought that they had defeated decisively and discredited. "To err is Truman" was a commonplace smear.  Of course that is no good analogue in some respects; Truman had never been elected President, he had a much longer political career, and he had far lesser formal education. It would be nearly impossible for someone like Truman to miss out on college; he would have been more polished as a politician for having gone through a four-year university. Truman had military experience and private-sector experience as an entrepreneur (good officer, unsuccessful entrepreneur).  Truman followed the most successful President in American history; Barack Obama follows what may be the worst.

I look at 2010 and I see 1946 in some respects. The big difference of course is that the Democrats lost House and Senate majorities that they had held for sixteen years; the Republicans in 2010 had been in the political wilderness for only four years. Truman couldn't hold a candle to FDR who had generally been beyond criticism from the Pearl Harbor attack to his death; Truman got caught up in the loose ends of a faulty settlement of the war. In contrast President Obama could never undo the damage of  two bungled wars for profit and the collapse of a corrupt bubble-economy. Americans got impatient when everything did not go right all at once and did Phase I of turning America into a right-wing plutocracy in 1946 and 2010 alike. As in 1948 I expect the American electorate of 2012 to be impatient with Phase I of turning America into a right-wing plutocracy.  This time the Republicans are far less subtle than they were in the 1940s, and many of the 'winners' of 2010 would not be re-elected. Take a good look at the approval ratings for Congress, especially of Congressional Republicans, and imagine how President Obama could be dense enough to not recognize the one strategy that can rescue him.  Hint: every House seat will be up for grabs.

Truman did not 'barely survive'. He won 49.55% of the popular vote against the 45.07% of the popular vote of Thomas E. Dewey. He won 303 electoral votes (57.1%) despite two dissenting wings of the Democratic party (Henry Wallace's Progressives who thought that Harry Truman hadn't gone far enough  on socialism and had gone too far in confronting Stalin and the racist movement of Strom Thurmond). If you figure that supporters of both Wallace and Thurmond would have never gone for Dewey, then you figure that  without those dissenting wings, the President would have had an electoral landslide. Truman won with a 4% plurality over Dewey nationwide.

That will not quite be imitated in 2012. So far there is no left-wing alternative to President Obama, and there is no racist wing of the Democratic Party likely to defect (the political descendants of the Dixiecrats are now a core constituency of the Republican Party).

Take a good look at 1948 again; add the votes of Truman and Wallace in Michigan, New York, and Oregon; Truman, Wallace, and Thurmond in Maryland and he gets another 80 electoral votes there, and the 39 electoral votes that Thurmond got, and Truman wins a clear majority of the popular vote and 424 electoral votes...  

Back when the President's approval was in the low forties the President still seemed to be winning matchups with Mitt Romney in Wisconsin (which Kerry came close to losing) and Ohio (which the GOP nominee absolutely must win to have a chance). The Republican nominee for President still has to face the slickest campaign apparatus in American history, one that will stop at nothing to register as many new voters as possible. The Obama campaign succeeded in 2008 in turning not-so-likely voters into voters, and I expect it to try again what it did in 2008.  We all know the limitations of this President, but at least we have a good idea of who will be the VP nominee. We don't know who the Republican nominee for VP will be. If Mitt Romney gets an ideological attack dog as a running mate so that the GOP can satisfy the Hard Right base, then whatever credibility Mitt Romney has among moderate independents goes down the drain. That's before you suggest Perry, Palin, or Bachmann.

A RINO would now defeat President Obama.  But after the effective purge of Republican moderates, what remains of them?  

How much you despise this President means nothing any more than people who thought much the same of Ronald Reagan in 1983 meant anything. You cannot convince people who think that President Obama is better the GOP alternatives that the President is a moral failure out of touch with some purported truth that emanates from Rush Limbaugh, FoX Newspeak Channel, or sold-out think-tanks of the Right. Your side has gone as far as it can with a strategy good for winning one election, but it has shown that it has nothing that didn't fail in the recent past.  

We are not going to have another speculative boom for a very long time, but the GOP seems to suggest that the way to create new prosperity is to return to the economic principles that underpinned the Dubya-era boom in real estate.  

 
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