UO students chant “f**k the mormons” at BYU game, BYU complains

[Aurelius]

Meh. Doesn't bother me. Grow a thicker skin.

[Aurelius]

Meh. Doesn't bother me. Grow a thicker skin.

Are you Mormon?

No, but that doesn't matter. People need to stop being whiny babies who take offense at the smallest things and have to go crying to authority figures to punish those people instead of being adults.

And this is a college football game. It's not complete without this sort of thing.

[Aurelius]

They have some wacky beliefs, but they're nice people.

This has nothing to do with the thread, but your signature image is laugh-out-loud funny. Nice job.

I have signatures turned off. Mind sharing it?

[Aurelius]

Meh. Doesn't bother me. Grow a thicker skin.

Are you Mormon?

No, but that doesn't matter. People need to stop being whiny babies who take offense at the smallest things and have to go crying to authority figures to punish those people instead of being adults.

And how do "adults" deal with problems, Cody? Because if you said this kind of thing in the workplace, you'd certainly be fired.

I must say it is extremely disturbing that so many conservatives think that there should just be absolutely zero consequences to cruel or anti-social behavior.

They're socially ostracized? Cancel culture!

They're punished in some formal way? Authoritarianism!

Nobody should ever face any consequences for anything. Just everyone do what you want, don't care what anyone thinks of you.

No, I absolutely would not be fired. I've had plenty of bosses who say things like this too, in a wide range of different types of jobs. Out of the ten or so jobs I've worked at, I can think of one where maybe people wouldn't be happy about it. All your jobs have been in Democratic politics, yes? That's going to create a social environment that is very different than at a lot of other jobs.

And no, I don't think no one should ever be ostracized for everything. The problem with cancel culture isn't ostracism, it is the absolutely ridiculous reasons for the ostracism. There are various types of behaviors that deserve ostracism. If someone is a whiny baby who expects authority figures to solve all their problems and respond to all their slights, and can't ever take a joke. If someone is a liar or cheat. If someone is an egotistical asshole. If someone has their brain poisoned by cable news, is constantly ranting about politics in inappropriate settings, and absolutely refuses to stop (for example, my Fox News uncle who I just spent four days with due to unforeseen circumstances). Plenty of reasons. Doing things that woke lunatics get offended by is not such a thing.

What the hell ever happened to "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me"? This particular strand of American left-liberalism is genuinely pathetic and deserves only mockery. I repeat - *this is a college football game* and students chanting things to annoy their opponent is a tradition as old as time, and quite a good one I must say.

If someone started chanting "f#ck the gays" I wouldn't go running to some authority figure to shut it down. I'd think of the nastiest possible thing I could say that would hit them the hardest and I'd start shouting it right back at them. Going back to what I said, I once worked with a spectacularly nasty guy who was full of hate in his heart for absolutely everybody. Once, after realizing that I am Jewish, he started ranting about how Hitler was our punishment for killing Jesus. I shot right back at him that when my people were the envy of the ancient world, his people were living in mud huts. As I intended, he completely lost his sh#t. (This guy was also Hispanic and constantly called the white people, and only the white people, n----rs. No, I don't understand this. A few months later he got fired because it had gotten to the point that every single foreman refused to work with him. On the way out he tried to snitch on everyone who vaped on the job. Great guy!) If I had gone to my boss and whined about the stuff this guy said, he would have yelled at me for wasting his time, called me a bunch of boutique curse words I'd probably never heard before, and told me to get back to work.

[Aurelius]

No, I absolutely would not be fired. I've had plenty of bosses who say things like this too, in a wide range of different types of jobs. Out of the ten or so jobs I've worked at, I can think of one where maybe people wouldn't be happy about it. All your jobs have been in Democratic politics, yes? That's going to create a social environment that is very different than at a lot of other jobs.

You are completely out of your mind if you think that you wouldn't at the very least face some form of disciplinary action for openly and proudly disparaging a religious group at your place of work. HR would not look kindly on it at all.

I worked in a government building and, briefly, a deli when I was in college. So I've worked in a variety of environments.

Alright, I challenge you to do this: tomorrow when you go to work, walk up to your boss and say "I hate Jews, gays, and Blacks." Report back to us with the results.

I assumed you were saying I'd get fired for saying people need to stop being whiny babies who go crying to authority figures whenever they get their feelings hurt. If you were saying I'd get fired for saying "f*** the Mormons", I misread and we were talking past each other.

If I'm counting right I've worked at two white collar and seven blue collar jobs in my life (although I've spent more cumulative time at the white collar jobs). If I said "f*** the Mormons" at work I would definitely not get in any trouble at any of the blue collar jobs and at one of the two white collar jobs. At the other one, it's possible I would have gotten a casual talking to, but it would probably be something like "hey, keep in mind that our company is based in Utah and a ton of our coworkers are Mormon. You don't know who might hear what you're saying and who might get upset." I was working at a small Chicago office of a company whose main offices are in Utah. This was for a software engineering internship, btw. The other white collar job was IT support at a research supercomputing center. Obviously the blue collar jobs are on a completely different planet in terms of how people talk and what is acceptable.

At every single job I've worked at, there have been all sorts of passionate and interesting discussions among coworkers about all sorts of topics, even taboo ones. For the most part (with somewhat of an exception of the internship mentioned above) no one gave a damn about political correctness, whether right wing or left wing political correctness. I actually once worked with a guy who grew up in a small majority-Mormon town in northeast Arizona and absolutely *hated* Mormonism and, to a lesser extent, Mormons. "F#ck the Mormons" was absolutely said on that job a number of times, and there were all sorts of deep and fascinating discussions about the good and bad - especially bad - things about various religions.

I am not currently working. After my last job ended in the spring I took the summer off for a big long road trip that I've been planning for 5 years. That is ending very soon, and I will likely be back at work, in a software job, by the end of next month. I do not think I need to explain why going up to my boss unprompted and saying I hate blacks, gays, and Jews would be a bad idea. But that is not the same thing as saying "f**k the Mormons". People tend to view criticism of ethnoreligions very differently than criticism of purely creedal religions, and of course race and sexual orientation are immutable and criticism of them is much more taboo than criticism of religious beliefs.

Finally, I should point out that this did not happen at a workplace. It happened at a college football game. Students at these games actively trying to get a rise out of the other side is a tradition as old as time. I guarantee you there was no actual malice behind these chants.

[Aurelius]

No, I absolutely would not be fired. I've had plenty of bosses who say things like this too, in a wide range of different types of jobs. Out of the ten or so jobs I've worked at, I can think of one where maybe people wouldn't be happy about it. All your jobs have been in Democratic politics, yes? That's going to create a social environment that is very different than at a lot of other jobs.

You are completely out of your mind if you think that you wouldn't at the very least face some form of disciplinary action for openly and proudly disparaging a religious group at your place of work. HR would not look kindly on it at all.

I worked in a government building and, briefly, a deli when I was in college. So I've worked in a variety of environments.

Alright, I challenge you to do this: tomorrow when you go to work, walk up to your boss and say "I hate Jews, gays, and Blacks." Report back to us with the results.

SNIP

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2019/12/22/fans-who-flipped-off-cussed-at-isaiah-thomas-banned-from-arena-for-one-year/amp/

Fans have gotten suspended for flipping a player off so yes there is rules on behavior when you attempt a sports match and if you break those rules prepare to be punished for it . Those rules are also clearly stated before the start of each game and I can tell you I have gone to 25 NBA games since like 2004 and yah those rules have been stated every time

Well the NBA, like any organization, has the right to set and enforce its own rules. I am not aware of any such rules for college football.

[Aurelius]

I assumed you were saying I'd get fired for saying people need to stop being whiny babies who go crying to authority figures whenever they get their feelings hurt. If you were saying I'd get fired for saying "f*** the Mormons", I misread and we were talking past each other.

1. Yes, that's what I was saying.

If I'm counting right I've worked at two white collar and seven blue collar jobs in my life (although I've spent more cumulative time at the white collar jobs). If I said "f*** the Mormons" at work I would definitely not get in any trouble at any of the blue collar jobs and at one of the two white collar jobs. At the other one, it's possible I would have gotten a casual talking to, but it would probably be something like "hey, keep in mind that our company is based in Utah and a ton of our coworkers are Mormon. You don't know who might hear what you're saying and who might get upset."

We must just have completely different conceptions of reality or walk in completely different paths of life, because I cannot imagine such a statement receiving anything less than outright condemnation.

At every single job I've worked at, there have been all sorts of passionate and interesting discussions among coworkers about all sorts of topics, even taboo ones. For the most part (with somewhat of an exception of the internship mentioned above) no one gave a damn about political correctness, whether right wing or left wing political correctness.

This isn't about 'political correctness' this is about overt bigotry.

I actually once worked with a guy who grew up in a small majority-Mormon town in northeast Arizona and absolutely *hated* Mormonism and, to a lesser extent, Mormons. "F#ck the Mormons" was absolutely said on that job a number of times, and there were all sorts of deep and fascinating discussions about the good and bad - especially bad - things about various religions.

2. And how do you think that your co-worker may have treated a Mormon co-worker? This is the kind of thing that leads to a hostile work environment.

I am not currently working. After my last job ended in the spring I took the summer off for a big long road trip that I've been planning for 5 years. That is ending very soon, and I will likely be back at work, in a software job, by the end of next month. I do not think I need to explain why going up to my boss unprompted and saying I hate blacks, gays, and Jews would be a bad idea. But that is not the same thing as saying "f**k the Mormons". People tend to view criticism of ethnoreligions very differently than criticism of purely creedal religions, and of course race and sexual orientation are immutable and criticism of them is much more taboo than criticism of religious beliefs.

3. I do not agree that people would view "f**k the Mormons" and "f**k the Blacks" differently.

Finally, I should point out that this did not happen at a workplace. It happened at a college football game. Students at these games actively trying to get a rise out of the other side is a tradition as old as time. I guarantee you there was no actual malice behind these chants.

4. You can get a rise out of sports opponents without resorting to bigotry. I do it all the time.

1. Got it.

2. We had a Mormon co-worker who came on for part of the summer. This guy treated him perfectly fine. People made fun of the Mormon guy for his Mormonism, and he made fun of us in return for all sorts of things. This was not in the slightest any different from how the rest of us treated each other. Believe it or not, giving each other sh#t about even very personal things is absolutely normal and constant in plenty of workplaces. And on this job, if someone had started whining about a hostile workplace environment, everyone else would have given them the cold shoulder and they would not have lasted long.

To be clear, this was a construction job. It should not surprise anyone at all that such a job will have a social environment *very different* than, say, a job in Democratic Party politics.

3. You are wrong. Criticism of creedal religions is less taboo than criticism of ethnoreligions, which is itself less taboo than criticism of immutable traits like race.

4. Sure. I do the same at sporting events. These folks chose not to for whatever reason. BYU choosing to complain through official channels is really thin skinned and pathetic. Have any of the players said anything about this?

[Aurelius]

2. We had a Mormon co-worker who came on for part of the summer. This guy treated him perfectly fine. People made fun of the Mormon guy for his Mormonism, and he made fun of us in return for all sorts of things. This was not in the slightest any different from how the rest of us treated each other. Believe it or not, giving each other sh#t about even very personal things is absolutely normal and constant in plenty of workplaces. And on this job, if someone had started whining about a hostile workplace environment, everyone else would have given them the cold shoulder and they would not have lasted long.

Sometimes people will allow people to make fun of them in this way out of fear of backlash. And since you said they "wouldn't last long" this is definitely plausible. I'm not saying this is necessarily how this particular guy felt, but you can't deny that it's probable.

And it would also be very illegal to fire him if he complained about being mistreated due to his religion. Like, that's textbook discrimination.

To be clear, this was a construction job. It should not surprise anyone at all that such a job will have a social environment *very different* than, say, a job in Democratic Party politics.

"Construction workers are a bunch of racists. Btw Democrats are the real classists."

3. You are wrong. Criticism of creedal religions is less taboo than criticism of ethnoreligions, which is itself less taboo than criticism of immutable traits like race.

Among society at-large? Perhaps. According to human resources? It's all identical.

Everyone was giving each other s**t constantly and reciprocally. That is not "racist". That's the last I'm going to say about this.

[Aurelius]

2. We had a Mormon co-worker who came on for part of the summer. This guy treated him perfectly fine. People made fun of the Mormon guy for his Mormonism, and he made fun of us in return for all sorts of things. This was not in the slightest any different from how the rest of us treated each other. Believe it or not, giving each other sh#t about even very personal things is absolutely normal and constant in plenty of workplaces. And on this job, if someone had started whining about a hostile workplace environment, everyone else would have given them the cold shoulder and they would not have lasted long.

Sometimes people will allow people to make fun of them in this way out of fear of backlash. And since you said they "wouldn't last long" this is definitely plausible. I'm not saying this is necessarily how this particular guy felt, but you can't deny that it's probable.

And it would also be very illegal to fire him if he complained about being mistreated due to his religion. Like, that's textbook discrimination.

To be clear, this was a construction job. It should not surprise anyone at all that such a job will have a social environment *very different* than, say, a job in Democratic Party politics.

"Construction workers are a bunch of racists. Btw Democrats are the real classists."

3. You are wrong. Criticism of creedal religions is less taboo than criticism of ethnoreligions, which is itself less taboo than criticism of immutable traits like race.

Among society at-large? Perhaps. According to human resources? It's all identical.

True, but everybody hates HR.

Yeah. Telling me that HR drones think a certain way is not exactly gonna convince me that normal people think that way, or that that's the right way to think about something. Much more likely the opposite.

Plus, it's not like HR is constantly looking over your shoulder waiting for you to say wrongthink so they can discipline or fire you. HR will get involved if they receive a complaint. The likelihood of this depends greatly on the work culture. Especially when the HR people are 1,000 miles from you at the company headquarters several states away, as was the case in the particular job I'm talking about!

[Aurelius]

True, but everybody hates HR.

Only people who are bigoted or sexually harass their co-workers.

What planet do you live on? Normal people do not like HR. Their role is to keep the company from getting sued. They are not your friend.

[Aurelius]

HR isn't your friend or your enemy, but the loudest critics of HR tend to be people who were being assholes to their co-workers.

There's a reason HR is mostly women, Cody.

Are you implying that women aren't capable of doing real work, so they have to resort to wasteful leech jobs like HR? Sexist.

HR is an extremely valuable job.

It's only valuable if micropolicing speech, wasting time with all sorts of bureaucratic BS, and aggressively minding other people's business, and wasting your time with redundant and embarrassingly trivial "trainings" are things that are fundamentally good. It's not.

HR is an annoying hassle that is begrudgingly put up with.

[Aurelius]

HR contributes nothing to society. It is a bullsh*t job to keep unemployable people employed.

I'd even argue that a lot of what HR does has negative value, since they waste so much time in which people with useful, productive jobs could be doing actual work, and lower morale too. Instead they have to waste it on all sorts of make-work garbage.