Obama has torture memos released (user search)
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  Obama has torture memos released (search mode)
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Author Topic: Obama has torture memos released  (Read 5318 times)
Landslide Lyndon
px75
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Posts: 27,106
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« on: April 17, 2009, 03:55:35 AM »
« edited: April 17, 2009, 03:58:09 AM by px75 »

I'm astounded that there are people here who defend torture under ANY circumstances.
Then again considering the complete lack of brain activity exhibited by the aforementioned posters, perhaps I shouldn't be.

The Constitution does not apply to terrorists.

Says who, you inbred dickhead? Your imaginary constitutional scholar friend?
And I say that the constitution doesn't apply to retarded hacks like you. How about that?

And Geneva convention = irrelevant, when our safety is at stake.

In case you didn't know, the Geneva conventions are the reason American soldiers can't be tortured when captured by their enemies. But keep up making a fool of yourself, Miss South Carolina of Atlas Forum. 

And by the way, since ''our safety is at stake'', why stop at the Geneva conventions?
Why not suspend the constitution and make Bush and Cheney dictators for life? Hell, if we are under constant danger of being attacked by terrorists then why waste our time and energy with elections and other irrelevant stuff?
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Landslide Lyndon
px75
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2009, 10:05:35 AM »

px75, you really don't think Americans are tortured when captured by Al-Qaeda? Do you really think they give a sh**t about the Geneva convention?

So what you propose is for the civilized Western Democracies to stoop to Bin Laden's level in order to defeat him. How thoughtful! How brilliant!

But I'll just let Andrew Sullivan speak. I couldn't have said it better myself.

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Landslide Lyndon
px75
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2009, 10:12:46 AM »


If you really think that, you're an idiot.  While we go on being 'moral' the terrorists will still be attacking.  They're not going to quit because they see this as a war (not as a criminal matter as most liberals see it).  Also, we're not 'stooping down to their level'.  If someone attacks you with a knife and you retaliate, it is not being evil but being defensive.  Right now we're doing what we failed to do in the 90's by not reacting but taking preventive measures to make sure our citizens don't get killed.  The two are not comparable.

My god, you are absolutely right. I wonder how that wussy FDR won WWII without creating extermination camps where he would torture and kill the captured German and Japanes soldiers, like they did.

Being the smarmy liberal he was he just did some lame-ass concentration camps for the Japanese-Americans, which as we know were crucial to the Allied victory.
 
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Landslide Lyndon
px75
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Posts: 27,106
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2009, 10:24:46 AM »


If you really think that, you're an idiot.  While we go on being 'moral' the terrorists will still be attacking.  They're not going to quit because they see this as a war (not as a criminal matter as most liberals see it).  Also, we're not 'stooping down to their level'.  If someone attacks you with a knife and you retaliate, it is not being evil but being defensive.  Right now we're doing what we failed to do in the 90's by not reacting but taking preventive measures to make sure our citizens don't get killed.  The two are not comparable.

My god, you are absolutely right. I wonder how that wussy FDR won WWII without creating extermination camps where he would torture and kill the captured German and Japanes soldiers, like they did.

Being the smarmy liberal he was he just did some lame-ass concentration camps for the Japanese-Americans, which as we know were crucial to the Allied victory.
 


This is different from FDR's internment camps (the horrors of which have been exaggerated greatly) because we are talking about terrorists here, not American citizens.

The captured German and Japanese soldiers weren't American citizens you moron.

And don't tell me they were wearing uniforms. The resistance fighters weren't, but the Nazi officers who executed them were convicted of war crimes.

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Landslide Lyndon
px75
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Posts: 27,106
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« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2009, 11:53:11 AM »


http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/04/they-waterboarded-him-183-times-in-one-month-ctd.html#more


I was wondering how the pro-torture right would respond to the newest revelation that the torture technique designed to facilitate the instant "truth" from suspects within 20 seconds was nonetheless used on Zubaydah 83 times. Let us recall that a huge amount of information had already been retrieved from Zubaydah using the legal interrogation methods that the US relied upon for two centuries before Bush and Cheney. Most CIA agents were convinced he was not as high up as Bush had said publicly and did not believe he had anything more to tell. In the end, they were right:

[T]he harsher handling produced no breakthroughs, according to one former intelligence official with direct knowledge of the case. Instead, watching his torment caused great distress to his captors, the official said. Even for those who believed that brutal treatment could produce results, the official said, “seeing these depths of human misery and degradation has a traumatic effect.”

No nuclear ticking time bomb. Just an absence of usable intelligence. So they tortured and tortured, before ordering up transparently bad faith legal memos to provide retroactive legal cover.  Most of the major voices on the bloggy right are currently silent, which is their last-ditch defense when their "we do not torture" bluff is called. But some are opining:

What are the benefits of such a disclosure? Transparency for Al Qaeda? There are no benefits for American national security, which is the primary Constitutional charge assigned to the President. Military and intelligence personnel will be frozen, knowing that any decision -- at headquarters or in the field -- could be politicized by left-wing radicals bent on destroying America. The inevitable results: lawsuits; politicization of defense and intelligence activities; and -- I am sorry to say -- additional catastrophic attacks on America.

Notice that the blogger actually does not know the presidential oath which is about defending the constitution of the United States, a task made impossible when the commander-in-chief is secretly authorizing illegal war crimes and covering them up.


But watching as Bush-defenders have to keep defending, even as they abandon every previous position they held, until they are telling us to ignore acts that in any other country by any other government would have the US invoking Geneva and the UN Convention, is to watch how democracies die.

Watching one human being under the waterboard is grueling. Watching that individual with nothing more to say be waterboarded 83 times in one month must have been grotesque, demanding a level of sadism or callousness we usually see only in authoritarian or totalitarian regimes. And the process of torture was so grotesque, in fact, that John Rizzo, physically destroyed all the taped evidence. But, as Peggy Noonan insists,

"Sometimes you need to just keep walking."

The next time an American is tortured by a foreign regime, remember those words.

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Landslide Lyndon
px75
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Posts: 27,106
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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2009, 12:46:16 AM »

I fail to see where any torture was committed.

Doesn't surprise me.
You are fail personified.
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