Are Millenial and Zoomers economic pessimism justified?

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

I think there could be increased arbitrariness with unregulated markets and ease of accessing them, but it has always been present in some form. Black and grey market activities were always there for the taking if you were slick enough.

'Hard work' in the classroom is ultimately pretty meaningless. Yet I think people were led to believe if they put in the hard work there, they can coast through life on an 'easy' job; unfortunately, the jobs that result from that still require a lifetime of hard work: they just save you from back-breaking work. The reward for hard work is still harder work (but less difficult than it would be otherwise). And the reward for saving responsibly is maybe you can retire at 62 with a duplex 40 minutes from downtown.

Boomers invented partying in Miami. That's not a new thing. The new thing is that the doctors and lawyers are active participants.

Perception is skewed but by childhood expectations more than social media tbqh. But it is also reality as I repeatedly spew all over the forum.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Huh, kind of on that topic:

New college graduates are overestimating their starting salaries by $30,000, report finds

I think I mis-estimated by 8k eight years back. But I'm not surprised it's gotten worse when costs are now much worse.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Huh, kind of on that topic:

New college graduates are overestimating their starting salaries by $30,000, report finds

I think I mis-estimated by 8k eight years back. But I'm not surprised it's gotten worse when costs are now much worse.

Tbf though, those are just starting salaries. In general, I don't think many college age people have a good grasp of the extent to which one's salary rises with age/experience at least in many industries. Starting at a 40-50k/year salary in something STEM related may seem underwhelming, but it's very realistic one could have a 200k/year salary within 20 years.

The article says that is expected within 10 years (which is feasible - degree dependent) but far from typical. Less than half is the norm.

I think there could be increased arbitrariness with unregulated markets and ease of accessing them, but it has always been present in some form. Black and grey market activities were always there for the taking if you were slick enough.

'Hard work' in the classroom is ultimately pretty meaningless. Yet I think people were led to believe if they put in the hard work there, they can coast through life on an 'easy' job; unfortunately, the jobs that result from that still require a lifetime of hard work: they just save you from back-breaking work. The reward for hard work is still harder work (but less difficult than it would be otherwise). And the reward for saving responsibly is maybe you can retire at 62 with a duplex 40 minutes from downtown.

Boomers invented partying in Miami. That's not a new thing. The new thing is that the doctors and lawyers are active participants.

Perception is skewed but by childhood expectations more than social media tbough. But it is also reality as I repeatedly spew all over the forum.

Agree and disagree.

I agree that these generations have been raised to believe working hard and persuing college in a ticket to the middle class or financial freedom when that's not always the case. With that being said, there still are certain degrees that can give you a really good shot at success if you work hard and are good at said degree (particularly in finance, technology, and things adjacent). The issue is that a ton if not most college degrees people persue don't lend themselves to very lucrative careers and that's something an 18-year-old may not be able to grasp upfront. Furthermore, most of the college degrees that tend to lend themselves to greater financial success are not in things people traditionally enjoy, but persue mostly for money. The biggest winners are probably people who genuinely enjoy things within STEM and/or Finance and are good at them because for most of these jobs if you genuinely enjoy them, they really aren't "hard work" in a relative sense.

The media narrative is often the 1% are doing better than ever at the expense of everyone else but in reality a lot of data seems to suggest it's the top 25%-15% doing better than ever at the expense of everyone else, and the top 25%-15% is far more realistically attainable for a pretty large subset of the population if they go down certain career paths.

Agree with the bolded with the caveat that we pursue them for money and then the money is still not enough to afford to live well and save prudently. So instead, we just spend it all on escapism since a happy day-to-day reality is not possible.

Also agree that it should be extended to the top 15-25 percent, except that you need to be using wealth as your metric rather than income. I just posted extensively in USGD about this and won't carry it over here. The majority of Under 35s with means acquired it through inheritance rather than hard work. Generational wealth is the only thing that matters. Surplus savings as a doctor, net of education expense, over a trade is pretty negligible if you didn't have wealth to back you or inherit land.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

Somewhat related- the below video and blog post explain a lot of why younger folks are pissed about the economy right now

Yeah, I've heard a little bit about this from family members. It was news to me at the time. It is an awful practice and a terrible waste of time. I've also heard that the real entry level positions seem to have an absurd number of interviews and often hours or days worth of real work must be completed pro bono to have a chance (and even then, most companies just want the free labor with no serious attempt to hire).

I think a secondary reason is major burnout from the labor shortage. I read that fewer employees doing far more work was true in the service sector but I think this is increasingly widespread.

My team's headcount is down 15% YTD. Our overseas outsourcing is somehow down 18% YTD. yet Revenue is only down 6%, so if you look at productivity per US worker, it's up a quite a bit from all-time highs - and now they are asking us to put in even more time next quarter because we have no choice but to grow, even if we have fewer people - or else the model doesn't work.

In spite of that, pay freezes are anticipated for the next 12 months, and bonuses are completely in doubt for the second time in five years - so there will be a continued labor shortage that may be exacerbated by inadequate pay.

It seems like this is a pretty common experience though may not apply to every industry.