The Sam Spade Memorial Good Post Gallery

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

When it comes to determining why the Democrats did so well in a few areas of the North one must really keep in mind more issues than slavery.  Especially in regards to a lot of the demographics, especially groups like the Dutch, the Germans, and the Irish all who had cultures that many of the Puritanical Anglo New Englanders found to be profoundly immoral and enabling of vice.  Research the history of the Temperance Movement as well as social conservatism on Wikipedia and be shocked to learn that many of the advocates of such things tended to identify as Whigs when there was not a strong third party alternative like the Anti-Masons or the Know Nothings around.  Hell, you go back to the Alien and Seditions Act and you will find Federalist New Englanders warning of a vicious Fenian tide overflowing the shores of America if the Alien and Seditions Acts were not passed. (yes I know I have made this observation dozens of times, but it is very relevant to the voting patterns in these states)

You also have to keep in mind that places like New York and parts of Connecticut were originally settled by the Dutch, whose influences on the governance of the colony of New York (defense of religious freedom was one of the concessions the conquering British made in that area) ran counter to the supremacist nature of Puritan society.  Namely, strong support for civil liberties such as free speech and freedom of religion.  Arguably, one of the original influences on "social liberalism" in this country at least in regards to defending political rights and expression that would later carry over to even many of the middle-upper class protestants who might have been descendants of Mayflower settlers but be wary of the connection between Church and State.

Not to mention, you also had some latent anti-French racism still around from the time of Jefferson.  I would suspect that many Franco-Americans, particularly those from Canada, would resent the treatment they would get from the nationalistic Feds who used the ghost of an invasion by Frenchmen to justify their antagonistic agenda.  Vermont has always had a significant French/French Canadian population, so this would not surprise me if that was a factor during the time of Jefferson.  Not to mention, New Hampshire and Maine also had large numbers of "Scots-Irish" that settled in those areas to work on the mills and such.  Vermont had very few of "Irish" settle there post Democratic-Republican era.  Up to about the late 1830s very few people differentiated between the largely dissenter protestant "Scots-Irish" and the overwhelmingly Catholic "Irish".  It would only be when the latter increased greatly in number and became pariahs that people started differentiating the two, particularly many of the Scots-Irish who wanted to avoid the discrimination that came from being regular "Irish".  But before that though they generally shared both the same ethnicity and were generally hostile to the "native" Anglo-Protestants for obvious reasons.

You also got to keep in mind that Lower New England had some very strict voting restriction laws for the time:



These taxpaying and property holding qualifications disqualified a very large number of people from voting.  Given the economic nature of these restrictions, it is very obvious as to who they disadvantaged.

TO the surprise of many people, even I won't use that aspect to blanketly label the Whig Party as "anti-immigrant", especially given that some members (like a young Abraham Lincoln) actually condemned nativism when they saw how morally inconsistent it was with being supportive of abolitionism (though I should note again that many abolitionists were anti-immigrant, especially against the Irish, precisely because of their strict moral views).  Really, I would go more along the lines of Shua's point that generally the Whigs fell more on the old school economic nationalist wing of the spectrum that happened to share an interest in defeating the "slave power" with many of the abolitionist of the North.

But in regards to the observation about Democratic performances in the North: influenced largely by reactions to the moralistic governance of Yankee conservatism with a heavy helping of immigration patterns.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

I gotta stop reading through old threads, but this deserves recognition as a classic post. This thread was so bad.

I just want it to pop soon. It'll really screw over lots of suburbanites when it does.

Dolt

If the housing market where to *collapse* (like it did over here in the early '90's) it isn't just suburbanites that get effected; the overwhelming majority of Americans live in households that own their own home. Every single one of those families gets hurt (often very badly) and it could well plunge the entire economy into a pretty bad recession. And if the U.S economy has a bad recession, the rest of the world has a worse one.
Besides do you know what sort of family gets hurt hardest by a housing market collapse? Without putting too fine a point on it, it isn't rich people.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

AL PREDICTED THE FINANCIAL CRISIS, IS HE THE VINCE CABLE OF ATLAS

I believe you mean the Ron Paul of Atlas.

Ah, but you see - Ron Paul also falsely predicted about 50 non-crises. BECAUSE DEBT = BAD, YOUSE GUISE

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

AL PREDICTED THE FINANCIAL CRISIS, IS HE THE VINCE CABLE OF ATLAS

I believe you mean the Ron Paul of Atlas.

Ah, but you see - Ron Paul also falsely predicted about 50 non-crises. BECAUSE DEBT = BAD, YOUSE GUISE

No, that's ridiculous.  Money grows on trees, and once we run out, we just take more from people who have "enough."  Duh.

Businesses are gonna have a real swell time operating without debt. People are gonna have a real easy time finding a place to live without a mortgage. Towns are going to have a real picnic trying to attract people and bysiness without infrastructure. These are basic capitalist concepts. That statement was actually more right wing than my typical economic statements.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

AL PREDICTED THE FINANCIAL CRISIS, IS HE THE VINCE CABLE OF ATLAS

I believe you mean the Ron Paul of Atlas.

Ah, but you see - Ron Paul also falsely predicted about 50 non-crises. BECAUSE DEBT = BAD, YOUSE GUISE

No, that's ridiculous.  Money grows on trees, and once we run out, we just take more from people who have "enough."  Duh.

Businesses are gonna have a real swell time operating without debt. People are gonna have a real easy time finding a place to live without a mortgage. Towns are going to have a real picnic trying to attract people and bysiness without infrastructure. These are basic capitalist concepts. That statement was actually more right wing than my typical economic statements.

I think it was pretty clear (at least to me) that he wasn't saying all debt was bad but rather mocking your constant ragging on libertarianism by pointing out that their opponents also have fairytale like views on economics.

Judging by interactions with him elsewhere, I don't think so. It's not like I support left wing policies so it's hard to attack me using that line at least. But whatever...I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

This whole thread is good posts, especially RINO Tom's long one: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=225730.msg4846144

One of the best informational threads in awhile. Some of that should be bookmarked for disproving myths that pop up every month. Wow.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

It's slightly more than flashes. Keep the name. Spade's glory must live on here too even though some don't have access to his gorgeous posts.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

How about we keep this thread open but change name for someone more deserving than a racist asshole?

How about Santander? I think we could all agree on that.