DC Unrest Megathread

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Meanwhile half of the Republican Party approves of the riots, and their conspiracy theory was validated by a majority of the Republican House caucus just hours after the attack!

To be fair, pretty much every Republican has condemned the violence, just as how establishment Dems condemned BLM riots.

147 Republicans voted to object to the election based on the president's lies. They know his claims are and have always been completely fabricated and they've decided perpetuating the lies is worth more to them than defending and uniting the country. Those lies triggered the violence by Trump's supporters. He's radicalized them with lies that their country is being stolen from them, their culture is being stolen from them, their election is being stolen from them.

The lies are behind the violence and unless the Republican Party comes out and apologizes to the nation for breeding terrorism in the gullible to get votes, they're 100% still the pieces of crap to blame.

Saying "I still think I won but don't hurt people" with no affect isn't worth a bucket of snake piss.

But it’s different from actually supporting the violence, which I’ve seen no Republican do so far.

No it’s explicitly supporting the violence. They are lying, these lies were used to incite this mob, they immediately went back to lying. Alternately they actually believe this, in which case the violence was justified.
In either case, this vote is supporting the insurrection.

Lying doesn’t mean you supported the violence anymore than supporting BLM meant you agreed with the occupation of downtown Seattle.

Yes, it does.

These lies caused this, but I’m going to repeat them makes you at least an accessory to the same/

And get the Holy Mother Church out of your avatar while you coddle this  murderous horde of idolatrous cultists.

Coddle? If it was up to me, Trump and 147 other Republicans should be expelled from the party, and many should be put in prison.

Your sitting here arguing it’s not really their fault. So yes the term is appropriate

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

I’m not saying they aren’t responsible for the violence, I’m saying that they didn’t actually intend for it to happen.

That they continued the lying which triggered the violence after the violence happened proves their personal power is more important to them than preventing the violence. Hawley made his objection intending for more violence because violence was now provably the outcome of such lies. He decided he'd rather have Trump supporters back him in 2024 or 2028, even if more Americans died.

Their hasn’t been additional violence after the session resumed, including after further objections were raised, so it shows violence wasn’t gaurunteed.

Are you mentally incompetent? I mean I saw the blue avatar.

Nobody is suggesting that lying is an arcane ritual which immediately summons redneck shock troops to smear feces on the walls. I'm saying it's radicalizing people and is leading the country in a direction toward further violence.

No s@%t it’s radicalizing people, but that doesn’t mean they actually condone the violence.

We can argue that their isn’t a real difference in effect, but I do believe there is a difference in the character of people.

I think there comes a point where the moral difference between willful disregard and actively attempting is moot.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Updating the title by the hour as things get worse for Trump has never been more simultaneously depressing (for the sake of the nation) and refreshing.

Who is the 5th dead person? Please don't tell me it was the cop who was in critical condition.

It was

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Am I the only person who feels sorry for Trump now?

Get bent traitor

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

The GOP needs to excise the wackjobs from the party, (i.e. Greene, Gohmert, Gosar) and follow more of a Ron DeSantis-style path.

Letting a pandemic run rampant and covering it up?

Well it’s a sort of step up

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

https://twitter.com/gregpmiller/status/1347369974860554244

Treason

Actual god damned aide and comfort to the enemy treason.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Saying all Trump supporters support the despicable crap from yesterday is just as bad as saying all Biden voter support looting/rioting and antifa.  The broad generalizations are not fair to either side, so cut the shiit.

Did Biden lead an antifa mob to the Capitol?
No

Then it’s not a valid comparison. Supporting Trump after this is supporting this, full stop.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1347396715670810626?s=20

You know I was giving allot more benefit than perhaps they deserved to Capitol Police, given that not turning a riot into a mass casualty when you've been deliberately undermanned is hard, but the more stories like this come out, the more I want the department just abolished and reconstituted.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

So when are the murder charges coming?

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

🤔

https://twitter.com/SeamusHughes/status/1347304182718615558

I assume these are against the rioters?

God. How many of these people will Trump take the opportunity to issue a last-minute pardon for? Better than fifty-fifty odds he does so for everybody put them folks charged with killing the cop.

He denounced them in his video after they did his bidding.

He always does that. He was mentored by a mob lawyer and consequently does the mob boss ‘but don’t do nothing illegal’ *wink* when giving out marching orders and denies everything.
That doesn’t usually work out well for those guys, but apparently we have a lower standard for the President.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

At this point, Biden's DOJ/FBI should consider putting every remaining Trump supporter on a terrorist watch list. 

That is absurdly hyperbolic.  Even if many partisan Republicans are no longer really supporting Trump, there are still tens if millions of Trump supporters, most of whom are pretty normal people.  Rhetoric like this is only fanning the flames and making things worse.

I agree. lumping all Trump supporters with the crazies who stormed the capitol is dangerous and wrong. A future Republican president could easily criminalize all of Biden's supporters as Antifa sympathizers.

Donald Trump lead the mob.
Supporting Trump is supporting the crazies.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1347612778199212035
https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/status/1347613361060634625

Unlawful entry?
How about Seditious Conspiracy?

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

The title is a bit misleading, since I think this is before the main events of the day, but still. Great optics.

Can’t stop thinking about the way he says “Kimberleh” at the beginning like he’s a FilmCow character.

Off topic, does anyone else get an Anne Veal vibe from Kimberly?
Like she’s been contacted to all these high profile men, and I’m just like ‘her?’.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

So the other dude in the pelts was a son of a Brooklyn Judge:

https://gothamist.com/news/trump-fur-ever-costumed-capitol-rioter-son-brooklyn-supreme-court-judge

The woman shot owned a pool supply business, we’ve had CEO of regional firms, business owners, and professionals caught out as members of the mob, Andy Harris, the numb nuts congressmen that got into a first fight in floor was an anesthesiologist.

These people are Muscadins not San-culottes no matter how much some is trying to make them the enraged voice of the white working class, the great mass of these people are from the relatively privileged classes.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

At this point, Biden's DOJ/FBI should consider putting every remaining Trump supporter on a terrorist watch list. 

That is absurdly hyperbolic.  Even if many partisan Republicans are no longer really supporting Trump, there are still tens if millions of Trump supporters, most of whom are pretty normal people.  Rhetoric like this is only fanning the flames and making things worse.

I agree. lumping all Trump supporters with the crazies who stormed the capitol is dangerous and wrong. A future Republican president could easily criminalize all of Biden's supporters as Antifa sympathizers.

No, no one could not. Antifa despises the Democratic party, I'm included, as much as they do Trump and the Republicans. Trump's supporters meanwhile have cuddled and condoned Trump despite every single day of The Last 5 Years demonstrating loud and clear in our faces his fundamental in complete emotional, mental, and moral stability ever be even considered as president of the United States.

Come on people. It's not like what happened yesterday given everything about Trump was remotely a surprise. His voters can't begin to claim this was unforeseeable. Well, other than to the Capitol police force, of course.

Then should we blame all Black Lives Matter supporters for the rioting that happened last summer? If your answer is no, then why should we blame every Trump voter for the riots.

Because, and I can’t stress this enough, DONALD TRUMP INCITED THE RIOT.
Every one of you is at least partly culpable, more so if you are pulling this both sides crap now.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Many, many Trump supporters are utterly embarassed at what has happened, IRL and on forum.

Sure, but the question therefore is; are they still Trump supporters.  The answer to that will tell us all we need to know.

No it doesn't.

Yes it does.

And yes, I am a partisan. I am not ashamed that l’m not interested in insurrectionaries feelings and I don’t believe that they should have any part in government, just like I don’t think Nazis and Confederates need to be given sympathetic hearings. As a liberal and westerner and an American and a Catholic and a humanist, I abhor secessionists, Nazis, Stalinists, Japanese Imperialists, Hinduvataists, Maoists, and Trumpists. And if they are still supporting Donald Trump, I don’t care how embarrassed they are.
They attempted to murder our political leadership and install an authoritarian strongman.
Any response in the aftermath other than ‘I didn’t know what I was doing, I disavow all previous support for these monsters, and I beg the American people for forgiveness’ is unacceptable.
Everyone who voted or otherwise campaigned or advocated for Mr. Trump or any of the congressmen who attempted to override free elections is culpable. Everyone who went around spreading both sides are just as bad, they don’t really mean it memery is culpable. And everyone who now engages in exercises to minimize this, see witch hunts or what about BLM, is culpable. Self examination is the only morally correct response.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Many, many Trump supporters are utterly embarassed at what has happened, IRL and on forum.

Sure, but the question therefore is; are they still Trump supporters?  The answer to that will tell us all we need to know.

No, even that doesn't go far enough. It's easy for these profile in Courage last-minute converts to democracy to reject Trump in the last week and a half of his presidency when he is irrelevant towards conservatives maintaining political power and advancing their agenda. If they don't oppose Trump ISM, which encompasses all those jackass congressmen, Senators, Governors, and hundreds of assorted Republican officials who full bore stood by and parotid Trump's Fantastical claims of election fraud and incitements for Direct action.

If they can't bring themselves to throw out those individuals for at bare minimum a sane Republican like Nancy Mays, Mitt Romney, John Kasich, Etc, or if not then bite the bullet and vote Democrat or third-party, then they've demonstrated they really don't give a crap. Between conservatism and democracy, they will choose the former every time.

Except for the fact that you could count on one hand the number of elected Republican politicians who are truly Trumpists.  Frankly, that list might begin and end with Josh Hawley.  And, even he is probably more pandering than anything.

Tuberville?  Gosar?  Mo Brooks?  Boebert?  Greene?  Gaetz?  We're already over one hand and those are just the first ones that jumped to mind.

Jim Jordan is another one that I can think of. As I was remarking elsewhere, the number of extremist ideologues in the Republican caucus is alarming to me.

How can we forget Big Louie Gohmert

Don't leave out rising stars Bob Good and Mary Miller!

These two as well. They are major downgrades from Denver Riggleman and John Shimkus.

I couldn’t imagine anyone being a downgrade from Shimkus, but here we are.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

https://twitter.com/ryanstruyk/status/1347674222194253825

Allot of scales from allot of eyes fell that day.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

I do hope that his tweets are preserved somewhere because I think that there is definitely an intellectual/scholarly use to his tweets over the years.  I am a little uncomfortable with a slippery slope with social media bannings, but I also can't say that it was unjustified.

Yeah, I agree more or less. I hope his tweets are archived somewhere.

I have less than zero doubt Twitter has complete access to every single tweet of his

I didn't doubt that. I just wanted them to be publically available somehow.

Unless they are material evidence to his trial, I never want them seeing the light of day again.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Do you guys really think that Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski would jump ship, become an Independent and side with the Dems?

She’s already won as an Indy write in and with the Top 4 primary she’s pretty well insulated from right wing challengers, so she could pull it off. Aside from the moral, how can I side with the GOP after this, it might make cynical political sense to get in as a pivotal vote in a very slim majority.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

>.> Apparently it's a lot more than 10-15%.

Ok, I suppose it is a understatement. But not a lot more either. Only 22% of Republicans feel they were "Mostly right".
The rest of my point still stands.
Also: the poll started taking surveyers on the 6th, so that makes it less weighty.

35% of Republicans "approve" of this traitorous action. What are talking about?

More to the point think they were either right or ‘had a point’.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Capitol Police officer who died when mob stormed the Capitol was proud to serve his nation, family said.
Click here to read article ... https://us.cnn.com/2021/01/08/us/brian-sicknick-death/index.html

This is what an actual patriot looks like.

Also, what felony murder looks like.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Is Trump legally liable for the death of that cop? I’d say he should be. He has blood on his hands.

Unfortunately, well unfortunately in this case it was actually good criminal justice reform, felony murder in Washington DC has been narrowed to a specific list of crimes and sedition and rioting aren’t on it.
Everyone near where this happened though should be looking at life.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Problem with the QAnon polls is that there were numerous overanalysis problems with them, even if the wording was well-done (frequently it wasn't). A ton of Republicans never really knew what QAnon actually truly was deep down either, and polls I believe generally showed awareness of QAnon to be highest among Democrats.

Well, not exactly.

A new poll finds that half of President Donald Trump's supporters believe in QAnon, a baseless conspiracy theory that has been repeatedly disproven and deemed by the FBI as an extremist threat, even if they do not know it by name.

[...]

The level of support increases when questions were phrased based on the conspiracy theory's core beliefs.

When posed as individual parts of the conspiracy — namely, that Democrats run an elite child sex-trafficking "cabal" and that President Trump is making efforts to dismantle it — about half of Trump supporters, whether they'd heard of QAnon or not, said they believe in both parts.

Do you believe that top Democrats are involved in elite child sex-trafficking rings?

Donald Trump supporters
50% - Yes
12% - No

Of course, these numbers might be off to a degree, and the wording is somewhat vague —but it is clear that a large number of Republicans, by all accounts a plurality, believe national Democratic leaders are involved in some kind of conspiracy revolving around child sex trafficking.

Well the issue is not so much the people who literally believe this, which I think is rather small, as those who say this as a tribal marker and go along with the cosplay revolutionaries.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Indeed. And it's important to note that fascist coups historically have not had the support of a majority of the population. In the last free and fair elections under the Weimar Republic, the NSDAP received roughly a third of the overall popular vote. The fact that anywhere from 10% to 20% of adults nationwide believe a violent assault on the U.S. Capitol was justified is a grave commentary on the state of the republic. That is why I am pushing back so hard against the suggestion that we shouldn't equate Trump's actions with what most Republicans support. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if Republicans say they support these actions or not. If they are still willing to vote for the perpetrators of Wednesday's attacks, then we have every reason to believe that this will happen again, and next time with better planning and support. We need to take very seriously the reality that a significant number of Americans support a fascist coup against their own government —and we need to do everything in our power to ensure that number does not continue to grow.

If we want to avoid a larger percentage willing to do destructive things, we have to consider how not to act, how not to further radicalize potential stormers of Capitol buildings.
And that's the prism I primarily look at in regards to this.
It's not helpful to unduly give Trump fans reason to feel persecuted to a degree this thing might happen again and the numbers willing to participate grow.

They’ve already escalated well past the point of trying not to provoke them. If you want them to back down now, swift and decisive force is the only way to go.