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Author Topic: Favored Quarters  (Read 3776 times)
Battista Minola 1616
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Posts: 11,452
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -1.57

« on: February 03, 2021, 03:45:28 PM »

Kind of irrelevant but I'm Italian so why not. The eight largest cities in Italy:

Turin: East side i.e. the nice Smiley hilly Smiley right bank of the River Po. Extends to the suburbs - Pino Torinese is in the top 10 richest municipalities in Italy. [also the historic centre and the immediately southward neighbourhood Crocetta, but that's less notable]
Genoa: East coast, especially near East (Albaro), plus the 19th century additions immediately north/east of the historic centre. It's absurdly clear. [the medieval centre itself is notably quite poor instead]
Milan: It doesn't exist, actually. Wealth pretty much decreases radially away from the centre.
Bologna: South side i.e. again, the nice hilly side - the very name of the neighbourhood is Colli (Hills). Starting out from the historic centre.
Florence: Unclear? It's easier to identify a "non-favoured quarter", which is the West side.
Rome: Near North side. Not the only place (there is also e.g. EUR, the home of the corporations, to the south) but overall it's fairly clear. Bougie Roma Nord vs. proletarian Roma Sud is a pretty famous meme. [the actual #proletariat lives outside the Great Ring Junction, but that's beside the point]
Naples: Near West side, though it's a bit complicated to describe because it has an extension protruding on the coast (Posillipo).
Palermo: Can't find any proper data, but I suspect it's something like centre-to-North-side.
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Battista Minola 1616
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,452
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -1.57

« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2021, 03:47:33 PM »

For New York, it is quite difficult to establish one. You have the Upper East Side and Upper West Side in Manhattan, but to link them with the wealthy suburban sections of Westchester (lfromnj is right that the east of the county is the wealthiest part, e.g. Rye, although the single wealthiest town is Bronxville in the south-centre, which is more of a conservative WASPy place along the lines of Darien or New Canaan) and Fairfield County, you have to go through the South Bronx (which is home to the poorest congressional district in the nation). Then of course you have other disconnected wealthy places on Long Island (many of which, such as Oyster Bay and Locust Valley, are still Republican) and in NJ.

The north also looks even weaker as a possibility when you turn back the clock fiftie-ish years to the Upper West Side of mid-20th century, which was pretty darn poor. Peggy Olson's apartment in dangerous area on Mad Men is now in a very rich area.

West Side Story is set in the (1950's) Upper West Side. 'Nuff said.
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Battista Minola 1616
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*****
Posts: 11,452
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -1.57

« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2021, 04:29:03 PM »

Kind of irrelevant but I'm Italian so why not. The eight largest cities in Italy:

Turin: East side i.e. the nice Smiley hilly Smiley right bank of the River Po. Extends to the suburbs - Pino Torinese is in the top 10 richest municipalities in Italy. [also the historic centre and the immediately southward neighbourhood Crocetta, but that's less notable]
Genoa: East coast, especially near East (Albaro), plus the 19th century additions immediately north/east of the historic centre. It's absurdly clear. [the medieval centre itself is notably quite poor instead]
Milan: It doesn't exist, actually. Wealth pretty much decreases radially away from the centre.
Bologna: South side i.e. again, the nice hilly side - the very name of the neighbourhood is Colli (Hills). Starting out from the historic centre.
Florence: Unclear? It's easier to identify a "non-favoured quarter", which is the West side.
Rome: Near North side. Not the only place (there is also e.g. EUR, the home of the corporations, to the south) but overall it's fairly clear. Bougie Roma Nord vs. proletarian Roma Sud is a pretty famous meme. [the actual #proletariat lives outside the Great Ring Junction, but that's beside the point]
Naples: Near West side, though it's a bit complicated to describe because it has an extension protruding on the coast (Posillipo).
Palermo: Can't find any proper data, but I suspect it's something like centre-to-North-side.

Speaking of hills, they are a very obvious place for wealthy neighbourhoods to be - in London, Richmond, Wimbledon, Hampstead and Highgate are all on hills. In terms of the US, LA and San Francisco immediately spring to mind as having a similar situation (and Portland, IIRC?) - any other US examples?

Yes they are, and I suspect that one of the reasons why a proper favoured quarter doesn't exist in Milan is that everything is flat.

In the US Birmingham (Hoover) seems another obvious example. Maybe sorta kinda Boston or Atlanta? I don't know.
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Battista Minola 1616
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*****
Posts: 11,452
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -1.57

« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2021, 06:39:36 AM »

So interestingly Spain doesn't really seem to have a preference of East vs West. I guess perhaps it is because Spain never really had much industry to begin with? (so the prevailing winds argument is much weaker).

Neither does Italy, though in our case it's because there are (almost) always hills that have oriented the choice. Though Milan is completely flat but the result was instead just a radial distribution, and even using the suburbs doesn't change much, because they are mostly poorer than the main city in all directions although there are outliers.

Also lol Spain has so many rich suburbs apparently.
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Battista Minola 1616
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*****
Posts: 11,452
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -1.57

« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2021, 07:10:14 AM »

So interestingly Spain doesn't really seem to have a preference of East vs West. I guess perhaps it is because Spain never really had much industry to begin with? (so the prevailing winds argument is much weaker).

Neither does Italy, though in our case it's because there are (almost) always hills that have oriented the choice. Though Milan is completely flat but the result was instead just a radial distribution, and even using the suburbs doesn't change much, because they are mostly poorer than the main city in all directions although there are outliers.

Also lol Spain has so many rich suburbs apparently.

I mean, there are also lots of poor suburbs too; and I would argue suburbs as a whole are often poorer or on par with the city.

In general Spanish rich people tend to live in 1 of 2 kinds of places:

a) The city itself, in fancy buildings from the 19th century "ensanches" that most cities had (or sometimes the old medieval city centre). I think this is the better definition of "favoured quarter". Places like this include Barcelona's "Upper Diagonal" or Madrid's Salamanca neighbourhood.

b) Far away from the city in suburbs with big detached housing (a rarity in Spain), private schools, etc. Places like this would most notably include Madrid's western suburbs (Las Rozas, Majadahonda, Pozuelo, Boadilla, etc); but I think they exist in every city.

Well of course a) is the norm in Italy too (just like in all of Europe, really). But I don't think b) is really a thing here? I mean there are Milano Due and Milano Tre and Milano Visconti which are planned communities for rich people built by none other than Berlusconi, but they're small.
In Italy 'suburbs as a whole' are only poorer than the city. Not even close. Well, Turin may be close.
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Battista Minola 1616
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,452
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -1.57

« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2021, 02:42:57 PM »

I realized that a funny (or maybe, extremely sad) way to find favoured quarters in Italy is just to look at neighbourhoods where No overperformed significantly at the constitutional referendum last September.
I'm pretty sure it works using the Yes at the 2016 referendum as well.

For what it's worth, the favoured quarter here in La Spezia, in so much as such a thing exists, appears to be a section of the historic centre and the immediately adjacent hills. Although more peripheric villas on the north(west) hill or the (south)west hill are fancy too.
The very first industry (i.e. the Military Arsenal) was built on the western plain right next to what is now the historic centre, but all the subsequent heavy industry developed in the eastern edge of the (larger) eastern plain.
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Battista Minola 1616
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,452
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -1.57

« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2021, 09:02:25 AM »

Toulon: Probably because of the harbour and naval base, the centre (particularly the oldest part, the lower town) is poor and has suffered from urban decay, a pattern found in several other Mediterranean cities in France. The wealthiest areas seem to be in the hills to the north of the city, and to the east on higher ground overlooking the sea (Cap Brun). So these patterns appear similar to Marseille and Nice.

I find this interesting (surprising?) because my city also has a harbour and a naval base just beside the centre and sits in the Mediterranean - in fact, La Spezia is twinned with Toulon! - but "poor" and "urban decay" are the last words I would associate with our lower old town.
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