Section 8 Housing

[dazzleman]

Negative.

I realize the theoretical necessity for some type of housing subisidy for a segment of the population.

Unfortunately, Section 8 housing tends to destroy the neighborhoods where it is placed.  Even many liberals refuse to buy in neighborhoods where there is Section 8 housing.

Therefore, I don't want it anywhere near me.

[dazzleman]

Positive because the other realistic choice is rent control.  I'd take Section 8 over rent control any day.

I'd rather have rent control.

Rent control has caused a shortage of housing in Los Angeles.  The reason real estate has shot off the charts is party because economic incentives mitigate against new housing being built.  New renters get hosed if they are lucky enough to find someplace, old renters get subsidized by the new.

Rent control is the worst.

Rent control is an idiotic policy that exacerbates the problem of high housing costs because it discourages the creation of new supply.

Rent control also ends up keeping rents artificially low for a number of high income people, and results in a run-down and decayed housing stock.  Rent control is a big factor in what destroyed the Bronx in New York City.

[dazzleman]

Nice program, but don't want the federal government in it. Beats the hell out of rent controls, which as some have already pointed out, suck.

Agreed. But I certainly wouldn't want to be a manager or owner of any type of apartments with the very poor as tenants. Most very poor are rather ignorant and lazy and will destroy a nice home or apartment in a few years. They really should get such damage taken out in their welfare or foodstamp checks.

They do, StatesRights.  If they damage anything to any great or consistent extent, they are kicked out of the Section 8 program and must go homeless.  As you can imagine given this harsh punishment, they generally keep the properties in top shape.  My father and I looked at many such properties in the 1990's, and on the whole - while of course slums, as are any housing for the lower class - the interiors were will kept by the unfortunates within.  I won't get in to your bigoted comments about ignorance and laziness as they are no doubt motivated by your well known hatred of a black.

Which particular black do I hate?

Surely States, you know that anybody who objects to crime, drugs and general riff-raff in their neighborhood does it out of hatred of blacks, even if the people causing these problems are white, as they are in many cases.

I know these trashy people who live in section 8 housing and they are white.  Their landlord went to section 8 because he can rip off the government (that's you and me) by charging above market rent.  Since the neighborhood where they live is going downhill anyway, he doesn't have much to lose by renting to section 8, since he can't attract higher-level tenants in that neighborhood anyway, though it was once a respectable neighborhood.

The woman has 7 children with 3 different men, one of whom she met on the internet and had an affair with.  She doesn't let them go to school most of the time because she doesn't like to be alone in the apartment.  A couple of the older ones are currently in jail.  The man has two kids who don't live with him, and to whom he pays scant attention to.  I could go on, but suffice to say they're not top calibre people.  And they're probably on the better end of the section 8 spectrum in that they don't do drugs or engage in criminal activity, as is fairly common with government-subisidized housing, unfortunately.

[dazzleman]

Why would anyone go through the extra trouble of dealing with Section 8 unless they were compensated better than they would be otherwise?  The reason that section 8 sometimes pays more is because they determine the median rent in a given community without taking race and class into account in the way that a private person would.  For example a landlord may own a house in the ghetto, wehre rents are very low, but Section 8 will pay him a rent that is derived not only from rents in the ghetto but rents for a similar house throughout the metro area.    Seems reasonable to me, and in fact paying such rents are the only way the landlord could have enough income from the property to be incentivized to maintain it, since ghetto 'market rate' rents are too low to maintain the buildings.

The problem is that when you have a captive audience, as you do with section 8, there's little incentive to maintain the properties.  That's especially true when the tenants are going out of their way to destroy your property, which is often the case with low-end rentals.

But you're right that often market rate rents in ghetto neighborhoods are too low to maintain the buildings.  That reflects the undesirability of the neighborhood, and the fact that nobody with other options would choose to live there.

[dazzleman]

No, the tenants are not allowed to destroy the properties - any significant or recurring behaviour of that kind finds them evicted from the program and made homeless.  They generally keep up the apartment or house very well given the harshness of this threat.  Also the owner must keep up the property to a very high level as he has to satisfy the sec. 8 inspectors.  Btw, he is compensated for damages caused by tenants. 

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.  The 'harsh' threats that you describe don't seem to keep section 8 tenants from engaging in crime and generally making the lives of those around them, those who are working to pay taxes that pay these people's rents, miserable. 

There's a reason people don't want to live near government subsidized housing, and it's not just snobbery or racial prejudice, though you obviously equate everything with that.

[dazzleman]

No, the tenants are not allowed to destroy the properties - any significant or recurring behaviour of that kind finds them evicted from the program and made homeless.  They generally keep up the apartment or house very well given the harshness of this threat.  Also the owner must keep up the property to a very high level as he has to satisfy the sec. 8 inspectors.  Btw, he is compensated for damages caused by tenants. 

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.  The 'harsh' threats that you describe don't seem to keep section 8 tenants from engaging in crime and generally making the lives of those around them, those who are working to pay taxes that pay these people's rents, miserable.

Well obviously the sorts of workers who live near Section 8 housing do not pay much in tax, being poors themselves.  Taxes mostly come from out in your neighborhood.  But I only referred to damages to the property resulting in termination of Section 8 eligability.  I'm not as well versed on the 'crime' issue.  I'm only relating to you the information I gathered when we were considering becoming section 8 landlords.

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No, it is classism, which is different.  Even non-section 8 tenants or homeowners in these areas are poors, and naturally poors are more prone to desperation, 'crime', etc.  Povery is caused by the powerful in society, and it is poverty that causes social problems in poor neighborhoods not goverment subsidies.

Actually, there are some middle class people in these areas whose quality of life is being ruined by the placement of trashy section 8 people in their neighborhood.  I have a lot more concern for these working law-abiding people than I do for those who create problems.

Government subsidies place problem people into what could otherwise be good neighborhoods, so there is the connection between government subsidies and crime/decay.

Clearly, you are not well-versed on the crime issue, as evidenced by your statements.  While poverty does augment some social problems, it is generally social problems that cause poverty to a large degree.

[dazzleman]

I have to wonder if opebo would be willing to move in next to some Section 8 housing to prove that he's not a classist. My guess is he'd be running with his tail between his legs in a matter of weeks.

I guarantee you guessed right.  Righeoutness is always strongest in those insulated from the effects of what they support.

[dazzleman]

Negative, the motels along the highway in my town have been turned into Section 8s for the last few years, and the impact has been terrible.  Crime has gone up here, almost 85% of the crime coming out of those motels.  We have crackheads wandering around asking for money all the time and harassing local businesses.  Where I work, some f'ed up moron who lives in one of them came into the store, harassed customers, and didn't leave until we has to get forceful with him.  Cheap housing attracts crime and other bullsh**t so Section 8 housing should only be put up in areas that suck already. 

Interesting to see a liberal speak so honestly about this issue.  Government subsidized housing really is a problem for the areas where it is placed.  Nobody can deny this.