Schoolboy expelled for doodling his own initials in his notebook

[dazzleman]

I don't think anybody should rush to judgment without hearing the school district's side of things.

It is quite possible, even likely, that this kid was a chronic troublemaker who was impeding the education of other kids.  If they seized an opportunity to get rid of a kid like this, who can blame them?  So few other avenues of discipline are left to school districts who must cope with chronic troublemakers.

The only people it seems anybody has talked to is the parents.  They're probably the sort of parents who accept no responsibility for disciplining their child, and who excuse improper behavior by their son.  There are many of these types.

To those who say that chronic troublemakers belong in school, I completely disagree.  Those who don't want to learn, and prevent others from learning, should be gotten rid of.  Either that or put them in a special school with others of their type.  We've gone way too far in guaranteeing the 'rights' of troublemakers while effectively denying the rights of those who go to school seeking an education.

And the whole lawsuit mentality is a part of why education is in chaos in many places.  If this kid was a chronic troublemaker, then no lawsuit against this school district should be allowed to prevail.

I know all this is speculation -- I don't know this case.  But I don't know of too many schools that are anxious to expel students for no reason, least of all a reason like this.

[dazzleman]

If this kid was as much trouble as implied, they could have found many other ways to expell him.

Besides, I have scribbled much, much worse things in notebooks than gang symbols during a lecture on "our diverse ecosystem" that went on about three days too long.

What difference does it make?  I simply think that people shouldn't rush to judgment against this school district simply on the word of this kid's parents.  Many parents today are of the 'no responsibility' and 'my child right or wrong' philosophy, and nothing that they say can be taken at face value.

[dazzleman]

If this kid was as much trouble as implied, they could have found many other ways to expell him.

Besides, I have scribbled much, much worse things in notebooks than gang symbols during a lecture on "our diverse ecosystem" that went on about three days too long.

What difference does it make?  I simply think that people shouldn't rush to judgment against this school district simply on the word of this kid's parents.  Many parents today are of the 'no responsibility' and 'my child right or wrong' philosophy, and nothing that they say can be taken at face value.

I agree with dazzleman. It seems this kid had a background of problems that his parents, though we are not certain, did little to tackle. It is only now that they kick up a fuss. This story has to 'stew' for a few days before we can decided if it was a heavy handed action or not.

We also need to know all the facts.  I am all too familiar with the way media can slant a story by only presenting certain facts, but not others.  This is done all the time in many of our most esteemed publications, and therefore my level of trust is very low.

This is symbolic of a big problem with education today -- the tendency of parents to fight disciplinary action by the schools rather than support them, for the good of their children.  There's a good chance that had the parents cooperated with the school at an earlier point, it never would have come to the point of their son being expelled.  But this is what 'no responsibility' and 'my child right or wrong' parenting leads to.

When I got disciplined in school, I sure as hell didn't run home and complain about it to my parents.  I was happy to keep it that school was the ONLY place where I got disciplined, because I knew that if I went home and told my parents, I'd only be in more trouble when they found out what I had done to get in trouble in school.  I was therefore more inclined to silently absorb the school's discipline, cover it up as best I could from my parents, and, most importantly, keep the level of my own misbehavior and rules violation below the threshold that would lead to a call home from the school. 

Once kids have no fear of that call home from the school, the school has lost its power to discipline, and education as a whole suffers.  I feel sorry for educators who are expected to educate kids in this environment, and I would not be so quick to jump on the actions of this school district.

[dazzleman]

how silly...seriously, who here hasn't doodled a swastika or something like that at some point?

That's almost definitely not the real reason he was expelled.

[dazzleman]

Have the images from his notebook been released yet?

I haven't heard anything about the story since it first came out.

I'd be more interested to know this kid's overall disciplinary history.  The article alluded to a 'troubled academic history' and I took that to mean that he's probably been in a lot of serious trouble in school.

Since liberal laws usually keep troublemakers from being expelled unless they gun down the teacher, the district probably seized on this to take advantage of a zero-tolerance policy on gangs, or something like that.

This type of thing happens in the business world all the time.  A problem employee is difficult to get rid of for whatever reason -- usually because the employee is a protected class and the company is afraid of lawsuits.  So the company will seize upon something concrete to serve as a pretext to get rid of the person, even though it may not be the real reason the person is being dismissed.  I would be this school district did the exact same thing.

[dazzleman]

Dazzleman, I say this was no intent of offending you.  You're a very good poster.  You also have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to high school rule enforcement.

The standard, at least in Washington, is that if a student makes any threat toward a teacher's safety, the school has the absolute right to expell the student.  In many cases, it turns out to be a one year suspension (especially in cases where it was clearly not a serious thread), but expulsions are not rare, and certainly it does not take bringing  gun to school.

I had a friend who was expelled from the Tukwila School District for a threat he did not make.  It was found on his computer, but was later determined to have been caused by a person found installing remote control backdoor programs on the school's machines.  Eight months later, he (a C student with a somewhat checkered past) went back to school with sincere and deserved apologies.

But in the meantime, he was immediately expelled with no questions asked, and no offer for explanation.

Just because you see news stories about students not being dismissed for stupid reasons does not mean it is as common as you seem to believe.

Alcon, it's not fair to say that I don't know what I'm talking about on this.  I have heard of enough cases to know that school discipline is not what it should be, and that in certain types of school districts, it is very difficult to enforce a standard of discipline high enough to allow for a productive learning environment.  My comment about needing to blow away the teacher was a deliberate exaggeration to make a valid point -- that student misbehavior has to rise to a very high level before a school is allowed to take any real action.  I stand by that point.

If your school doesn't have this problem, that's wonderful.  There are many that do.  I know that school districts sometimes make mistakes, but most are not looking for excuses to get rid of good or even mediocre students.

In the district next door to mine, there has been a 72% increase in violent incidents in the high schools in the past 3 years.  When the schools started to crack down, they were beseiged by complaints from the parents that the schools were 'giving their kids criminal records.'  Typical no responsibilty responses from irresponsible, lazy and stupid parents.  How about recognizing that their kids were earning their own criminal records.  I know a woman with a son in one of these schools, and she is absolutely miserable about it.  I feel very bad for her, since I live in a district with excellent schools.

I hope we can agree that if we're going to expect schools to deliver education effectively, they must be given the tools they need to maintain the order required for a productive learning environment.

[dazzleman]

Alcon, you speak very intelligently about educational issues.

But let me ask you this -- do you really think that more money will solve the problem of kids who 'refuse to do anything?'  No amount of money can give a person an education if he/she doesn't want it.

I think that Americans have a severely misplaced confidence in legal remedies for every little problem that ails us.  Instead of looking at what the real problems are -- generally stemming from the families -- we look to sue schools for every little thing.  That mentality was rampant in this thread, and that's what caused me to respond.

I think we have to stop thinking of these issues in legal terms except in the most extreme circumstances, and try to devise common-sense solutions to these problems on a local basis.

I'm glad your school keeps these issues under control with tough enforcement.  You're very lucky; many schools with the number of poor students that your school has do not, and the result is that the environment is hellish.  And no real learning can take place in such an environment, even for those who want to learn.  When that environment prevails, everybody in the school gets sucked down to the level of the worst students.