Why do you love America

[dazzleman]

I love the ideals that America stands for.

The idea that every person is created equal.  This was a radical idea when first expressed, and still has not come fully to fruition, but it's a huge step to express this goal and work toward it.

The idea that freedom belongs to individuals, and individuals decide how much power to give to the government, rather than the other way around.

The way America has been a beacon of hope for miserable and oppressed people around the world.  Once again, we have not always been perfect in this regard, and America-hating liberals like to pick on individual examples without looking at the big picture, but the reality is that no country has even come close to doing what America has done to advance the ideas of personal liberty, the worth of individuals and individual rights.

I find it pathetic that the best certain people here can come up with is to talk about video games and vinyl records.   That shows a total lack of understanding and appreciation of what this country is all about and what it has meant to the world.  It is no surprise to me that such people are on the left side of the political spectrum.

[dazzleman]

Er, never mind the fact that the person who started this whole thread about loving America was a liberal...

Regarding the actual question, I could answer the question, but I haven't really been in America for a long enough period of time, and I'd probably get yelled at if I did.  I could say why I love Canada, but nobody cares, so I'll just shut up.

Plenty of liberals love America, but unfortunately many do not, and we see examples of them here.

I'd love to hear why you love Canada.

[dazzleman]

I can’t even begin to comprehend the idea of not locking doors!!!  That is pure idiocy.  I double check to make sure my doors and car doors are locked.  I even lock my doors when driving for safety reasons.  You never know who could try to get in at a traffic light.  I would like to hear why Gabu loves Canada.  It is a nice place.  My mother and grandparents lived in Ontario.

I don't always lock my doors.  I drive with my car windows open, and doors unlocked, a good part of the time.  I don't always lock my car when I park it, particularly in the summer.

When I'm home during the day, I keep my house unlocked.  I lock it up at night, but there have been times when I've forgotten about certain doors, and it hasn't bothered me too much.

What kind of neighborhood do you live in?

[dazzleman]

Here is my favorite version of "America the Beautiful" made even more poignant by the fact that it was performed by a blind black man who grew up in the segregated south - the late great Ray Charles.  Notice how he uses what is normally the second verse - that which deals with improving on America's imperfections - as his first verse.  There is no other version of this song that can compete with this version that comes from the soul of Ray Charles.

AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL

Oh beautiful, for heroes proved,
In liberating strife,
Who more than self, our country loved,
And mercy more than life,

America, America, may God thy gold refine,
Till all success be nobleness
And every gain devined.

And you know when I was in school,
We used to sing it something like this, listen here:

Oh beautiful, for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties,
Above the fruited plain,

But now wait a minute, I'm talking about
America, sweet America,
You know, God done shed his grace on thee,
He crowned thy good, yes he did, in a brotherhood,
From sea to shining sea.

You know, I wish I had somebody to help me sing this
(America, America, God shed his grace on thee)
America, I love you America, you see,
My God he done shed his grace on thee,
And you oughta love him for it,
Cause he, he, he, he, crowned thy good,
He told me he would, with brotherhood,
(From sea to shining sea).
Oh Lord, oh Lord, I thank you Lord
(Shining sea).

[dazzleman]

Ray's version is clearly the best, but nothing beats The Star Spangled Banner. It's still the best American song ever written (though it probably wasn't originally intended to be a song).

I love the Star Spangled Banner.  Here's the unabridged version:

The Star Spangled Banner
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
(The Defense of Fort McHenry)
September 20, 1814
By Francis Scott Key
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

the morning's first beam,
In full glorOn the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, now conceals, now discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of y reflected now shines on the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner! O long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wiped out their foul footstep's pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heaven-rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, for our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner forever shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

[dazzleman]

Thank you, Nation of Ulysses - I was having trouble thinking of anything..

How dare you accuse our nation of not beeing free. Perhaps you would rather live in China or North Korea, where they have no freedom, but they have 100% totalitarian rule. You complain we don't have 100% freedom, so just take the nation that has the complete set of a government.

I don't see how helpful it is to say 'well it is better than China or North Korea, or Saudi Arabia.  Comparing ourselves to those nightmares is not setting a very highstandard.  Of course America is freeer than those places.   But it is also less free than most of Western Europe, and I would say only comparably free to some east asian countries. 

That's so untrue.  Most Western European countries have stricter gun-control, higher taxes and less free speech than the US. 

Europe isn't as free as the Europeans would like you believe.

Europeans are losing their freedom of speech in the name of political correctness.  I read that in France, an author is being prosecuted for writing a book critical of Islam.  We must fight to keep the liberals from imposing that here.

[dazzleman]

Europeans are losing their freedom of speech in the name of political correctness.  I read that in France, an author is being prosecuted for writing a book critical of Islam.  We must fight to keep the liberals from imposing that here.

oh shut up, you're the one defending Islam when I trash it. And so is Bush when he says Islam is a "religion of peace". That's all the proof I need to know that Bush is a g moron. Once again you are using a strawman. Do I look like someone who wants to stop criticism of Islam?

I'm really beginning to wonder whether you are mentally impaired.  I have been highly critical of Islam in other threads; I have even admitted to prejudice against Muslims.  Now I express concern that a person can be prosecuted for expressing an opinion - something that true liberals should defend - and you attack me.  Should I say it's OK that one can go to jail for expressing an opinion, particularly one with which we both have some sympathy?

You're just upset that I told the truth about liberals wanting to suppress certain opinions in the name of political correctness.  If you can't see that's true, then you live under a rock.  It is liberals here who defend Islam, and call anybody who questions it a racist.  If you are not one of them, why are you so offended by my comments?

[dazzleman]

I was pissed because you implied liberals want to do such things, which I obviously don't. Furthermore I can't think of a single liberal on this forum defending Islam, only moderates. Name one liberal who has. And you defended Islam when I said that Muslims can not handle democracy.

Your defense of Islam can be found here: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=18329.15 and

Do you think I want to make it illegal to criticize Islam and that I have a positive view of it.

P.S. France does not have a leftist government.

First of all punk, when I say liberals, I don't necessarily mean anybody on this forum.  I mean liberals in general, in society.  Every time I criticize liberals is not a personal criticism of you, so you really need to get over that.

Second of all, that thread that you attached is not a defense of Islam.  It simply says that every single Muslim in the world is not evil.  Hardly a ringing defense.  I said that I did not consider it a religion of peace.  I said in another similar thread that I whenever I see a mosque, I suspect it to be a center of terrorism.  Trust me, I'm far from a defender of Islam.

Which makes me more angry that a country like France would prosecute a man who dares to tell the truth about a violent religion.  And in case you haven't noticed, leftists here are the ones looking to curtail free speech, whenever somebody might be "offended."  A teacher in Washington DC was fired for using the word "ndly" because somebody was offended by it because they were too stupid to know that it has no relation to the word "n."  Did this happen because DC is a hotbed of conservatism?  Face the fact that liberals, not conservatives, seek to curtail free speech.

As far as the French government not being leftist, you can't compare political scales in the US and Europe.  Political correctness is taking over Europe, and making Europeans take a back seat to violence-producing people like Muslims.  It's probably what they deserve for being overly tolerant toward those who don't share their values and refuse to adapt.  I fear we will share the same fate.

You really need to learn to debate logically rather than attacking individuals who have not attacked you, despite the fact that most of what you say is quite deserving of attack.

[dazzleman]

I don't think we should stereotype Muslims, though I find myself having to fight my own mind from doing it all the time.

There are many peaceful Muslims, but overall, I don't believe Islam is a religion of peace.  Neither, incidentally, does Pres. Bush, though I understand the reasons he feels he must say it is.

That's the beauty of politics.  For the sake of a greater good, or your perception of a greater good, you must often advance opinions that you know not to be true.  Liberal Democrats do it all the time, on a whole host of issues.

Hell if this is an defense, hopefully dazzleman won't ever attack Islam

And that's one of the kindest things I've ever said about Islam.  In another post, I said that ever time I see a mosque, I pray that it's under FBI surveillance.

Unlike some others, I freely admit to my prejudices.  We all have them.  It's better to be honest about them than suppress them.  I certainly don't think that we owe all sorts of respect to Muslims that we don't give to the religion to which 90% of Americans subscribe to one degree or another.

[dazzleman]

I said that ever time I see a mosque, I pray that it's under FBI surveillance.

Missed that one

Well, it's true.  I think that particularly for Europe, the spread of Islam is a problem.  The European approach of sticking its head in the sand, and allowing a hostile vyper to take root in its bosom, is suicidal.  Stupid liberals in this country (oh please don't be offended BRTD) want us to do the same thing.

It is an outrage that anybody would be prosecuted for writing a book, period.  No matter how offensive a book may be (and I wouldn't find a book attacking Islam offensive), a free society would allow it to be published.  Would a person be offended for writing a book attacking Christians?  Of course not.  With political correctness, WHICH IS LEFT WING BY DEFINITION (for your benefit BRTD, since you don't seem to understand that), there is alwyas a double standard.

[dazzleman]

well I've said that the Christians in Lebanon should kick all the Shiites out. Does that sound like I love Islam?

Also, find a single pro-Islam thing I've said, and name some liberals (not moderates) who defend Islam here. Yes, opebo and Marxist-Leninist are such big fans of Islam.

Why do you keep talking?  Nobody said you're a fan of Islam.  What is your point?

[dazzleman]

well I've said that the Christians in Lebanon should kick all the Shiites out. Does that sound like I love Islam?

Also, find a single pro-Islam thing I've said, and name some liberals (not moderates) who defend Islam here. Yes, opebo and Marxist-Leninist are such big fans of Islam.

Why do you keep talking?  Nobody said you're a fan of Islam.  What is your point?

you said that liberals want to make it illegal to criticize Islam.

Liberals have had a tendency to try to stifle discussion of facts they don't find convenient.

Try mentioning the rate of illlegitimacy in blacks in front of a liberal audience.  They go into apoplexy; they just can't handle to hear the truth.

In Europe, politically correct people, on the left, can't handle negative discussion of Islam.  It's the 10,000 pound elephant in their living room - a hostile group of people who don't share their values, refuse to assimilate, and are outbreeding them at a fast rate.  Better to make sure not to tell the truth about them, at risk of going to prison.

Just because you're the exception doesn't mean that I'm wrong about liberals in general.

[dazzleman]

Then name the liberals on here who are defending Islam. I only see moderates like Lunar, JFK and angus.

How many times do I have to tell you that I was not talking about liberals here, but in society at large?  Are you capable of comprehending anything that I have written?  Obviously not, so I'm not going to waste any more of my time.