Hugo Chavez has died

[WMS]

My, the replies do come in. Those who know of me will damn well know how I feel about him.

But first:

If you can't say anything nice in the minutes after someone's death, stfu. Seriously trashy. I'm not a Chavez fanboy by any strecth, but have some basic respect for human dignity.

Did you and yours do so when Jerry Falwell died, Hugh? Just wondering...

I would like to add, that to those here calling Chavez's opponents "trashy", there was a thread called "Were gonna have a party when Thatcher dies." I know for a fact that half of you would celebrate the death of Dick Cheney, who was just as evil during his time in office, if not more evil, than Chavez ever was. So please, get a little bit of consistency in your hypocritical minds.

Quoted for truth. But don't interfere with the usual liberal circle-jerk that goes on on this forum

LOL. I've never heard of people killed by Chavez regime. It seems that the propaganda machine works well.

My, lefties take a seriously revisionist approach to the history of April 11, 2002, don't you?

Here's a hint: the Chavistas fired first.

Want my source for it, Hashemite? Perhaps you can come down off your pedestal and consider a point of view which isn't blindly pro-Chavez...

The Silence and the Scorpion: The Coup Against Chavez and the Making of Modern Venezuela, by Brian A. Nelson. I've actually met the guy - he is not even remotely one of those 'American right-wingers' you liberals trot out when you're defending leftie tyrants. He actually was pro-Chavez when he began his research on the 2002 coup, but when he discovered the facts, well, not so much.

I don't expect to convince a single person, but I so despise the adulation of Chavez by the left that the hell with it, while I don't revel in a creature's death, I won't shed tears for the fall of a tyrant, either. You lot are so anti-American that you'll forgive anything for someone who OPPOSES THE EVIL AMERICANS!!!

[WMS]

It is only fair to say that the 2002 coup was just as ammoral on the part of the USA as anything Chavez did in his nation.

I was not a fan of it - it was one of the dumber things the CIA came up with - but it was also a lot more complicated that just that: the coup initially had broad support before Carmona and the right-wing went berserk and tried to seize power within the coup. Take a look at that book - it doesn't exonerate Bush et al.

Oh, and Chavez tried to stage a coup against a democratically elected government, too. Funny how that gets forgotten

[WMS]

LOL again. This night will be a very comedic one in several political forums. I didn't mention the events on April 2002. Do you approve the coup the état that followed? I suspect that the answer is affirmative. I love being a revisionist leftie

Yes, you know, where the Chavistas fired on demonstrators *first*, killing 19 people and wounding around 150. That's what triggered everything that followed. But you'll just deny it ever happened, won't you?

[WMS]

You lot are so anti-American that you'll forgive anything for someone who OPPOSES THE EVIL AMERICANS!!!

Yes, I remember all the forum lefties who mourned Kim Jong Il after he died.

Cherry-picking a point, Lief? You're so nuts you actually support Bashar al-Assad. Kim Jong Il was such an extreme example that that doesn't say anything - in the case of Chavez, his anti-Americanism is exactly why you liked him!

[WMS]

Nobody has forgotten that Chavez tried to seize the power in the 90's, at least not me. He spent a little time in jail for that and later he regretted in public. The man finally took the power via democratic elections. Don't forget the events of that time, especially the Caracazo and the social unrest.

You say not to forget the events of the time in relation to 1992, but that is what I am saying about 2002 - the coup attempt didn't happen in a vacuum, despite apologists' best attempts.

Here, since you haven't clicked on any of my links the first time, try this one since it's quick.

For that matter, you have checked out what the human rights groups have had to say about Chavez's Venezuela in general, haven't you?

[WMS]

Ugh, I agree with you for the most part, but I have never seen Lief defend al-Assad nor say anything anti-American.

Hmm, you appear to be right - I've confused him with Tweed and Opebo. Well, here's the first apology to Lief, give me a sec to issue a more direct one...

[WMS]

I support Bashar al-Assad? Wow, that's news to me. I like Chavez because he was anti-American? That's also news to me! Kindly fuck off if you're going to resort to making up what I think or believe in.

Chavez's foreign policy has nothing to do with my opinion of him (and in fact I think his buddying up to the Iranian regime, for example, was gross). I like him because he was a decent man who tried to make his country a better place and fought against entrenched interests that had perpetuated inequality and stood against democracy in Venezuela for decades before Chavez was elected.

I checked and you are correct - I can't find anything like that. I appear to have confused you with Tweed and Opebo. So I'm sorry about that.

I am no fan of the entrenched interests that were in Venezuela before, it's just that Chavez was more interested in his own power than in helping the poor - he didn't need to do his undemocratic things in order to do that.

[WMS]

See, WMS, all that events are debatable and I'd love to discuss them another time in another place. It's only that it's not appropriate now turning into a debate between pro-Chavez and anti-Chavez hacks. It's really hilarious because I'm not a Chavez fan and I have some criticism towards his figure, but some people hates him in a way so ridiculous and disproportionate, product of some media hyperboles -- the man wasn't a dictator, try to keep this in your minds-- that I typed some replies on this topic.

Heh, another time, then. I've certainly debated it enough on-and-off over the years: if I'm not mistaken I was the very first person to begin a thread about Venezuela back in 2004, although I might have missed something. And I am no lover of rightist tyranny either.