Nelson and Reid Reach a Deal: Game Over

[cinyc]

Yay!  More taxation, regulation and limits on personal freedom!

It's a very sad day for individual rights, limited government and freedom.   The majority of Americans oppose this crap bill.  May the Democrats reap what they sow in 2010.

[cinyc]

It's a very sad day for individual rights, limited government and freedom.
 

But a very happy day for the millions of uninsured people that will now have access to healthcare.

Nonsense.  Most of those millions of uninsured people ALREADY have access to health care.  Paying cash works.  Insurance isn't necessary to get health care in this country.

And even after this crap bill passes, maybe some will have "access" to health care.  In 2014.  After the taxes have already been put into effect.  Or maybe they'll end up in JAIL because they can't afford to buy an expensive, mandatory, government-approved insurance policy that covers things they don't want or need. 

Bringing back debtors' prisons - it's the Democrat way!

[cinyc]

     So this bill makes it a crime to not have health insurance? Can't say I like that idea much, though I guess it makes practical sense.

Yeah but I don't think anyone is getting put in jail for this. They will just be taxed more and if they don't pay that they will face the same consequences you face anyways today for not paying taxes. And I must say this is one of the bills I really approve of. I am much more apprehensive about mandates on small businesses.

     Even if they are merely taxed at a higher rate (nevermind the tax load already suffered by the lowest earners) rather than prison time, isn't that still just punishing someone for a victimless crime?

This is not punishment, rather incentives. If we are going to force insurance companies to cover those with pre-existing conditions, we must make sure people can't just not have insurance until they need it. If we did that the sick would have to pay extremely high premiums. Individual mandates are the right and fair thing to do and it exists in most western countries. And means tested subsidies will be available to those who can't afford it so it's not as if people would have to choose between health insurance and other necessities.

Call it what it is - a poll tax for something of dubious value (government-mandated insurance that covers unnecessary things like mammograms and pregnancy coverage for men - no sex discrimination in policy pricing, remember - that's good enough for health insurance, where young men would otherwise be better off, but not for car insurance, where young women would be unjustly penalized - natch) that might better be served by saving plus owing a non-government sanctioned catastrophic insurance policy.

[cinyc]

I'm pretty sure that penalizing people for not buying health insurance by forcing them to pay a tax is not a poll tax, it is being responsible so that we can rid ourselves of Government MIA programs but whatever continue with your outraged, teabag hero, hyperbole.

It's a tax on someone by virtue of breathing.  You can't alter your behavior to avoid it - except to die.  Therefore, it IS a poll tax, by definition.

Then what's the difference between that and normal insurance? Doctor visits and blood tests don't really cost that much you know and it seems like that would be the only thing "extra".

The point is that the House bill (and I assume the Senate bill) essentially kills the "Whole Foods" high-deductible catastrophic health insurance with medical savings accounts model - which is the model that we SHOULD be gravitating toward, not away from because it increases consumer choice, lowers costs, and gets the government and insurance companies the hell out of most medical decisions.  "Insurance" that covers routine costs that should be borne out-of-pocket, like routine doctor visits and blood tests, isn't really insurance - it's a system that makes those of us who aren't hypochondriacs that run to the doctor at the sign of any sniffle subsidize those who are.  You MUST buy a policy that the government approves because we say so!  If the government determines that all policies MUST provide botox to Nancy Pelosi - you must subsidize her!  Heil government!

Your car insurance doesn't cover routine auto maintenance - nor should it.  Why should I be required to buy medical "insurance" that does?  (Or ANY insurance, for that matter).