Romney Hatred -- From Whence Does It Come?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I am not a fan of Mitt Romney at all.  But I do find it interesting that Republicans tend to be of one mind or another about him.  I am not hearing a lot of "meh" when his name comes up.  That could be a good thing, I dunno.

What I would like to know from my Republican friends is this:  If you loathe Mitt, why?  Is it because of his past or current stance on social issues?  Is it because of his Mormonism?  Is it a particular position on a policy issue? Is it the hair? Was it a specific comment he made, such as suggesting his sons were serving their country by helping him win elections rather than volunteer for the military?  Something else?

If you love Mitt, why?  Is it because you view him as conservative enough to hold the base but not a "nutter" who will drive away moderates and indies?  Is it because his wealth is indicative of a certain fiscal know-how and economic savvy?  Has it more to do with his affable personality and solid family life?  Perhaps you like his approach to campaigning?  What?

I'm sure curious.  I am neither a Mitt hater, nor a Mitt fan.  He is far too conservative for my taste on fiscal and social issues...but you surely expect as much from this silly leftist.  As a man, I find him to be a genial sort of fellow and a decent, but not remarkable, personal style and presentation. 

Well as a Mitt fan I will respons to you second paragraph.

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Yes that is one among many reasons. He often talked about unity among all Conservatives in the Reagan Coalition and trying to bring that back together, and whether you think thats a good idea or not is better to be as inclusive as possible, unlike Huck whose campaign manager openly talked about giving one part of the coalition the boot. He also has pretty good appeal in three very important regions. The Northeast, Midwest, and Mountain West.

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Its not just his wealth but the fact that he has a management style that would be pretty effective and many people if they would look past the spin and look at his decision making style(Listening to other people then making a decision once he has heard all sides), he is completely different then Bush and I think we need to restore that image of competance to the GOP.

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Yes I find it important that the First family should set a good example for exceptable behavior, Obama's family has done well in this regard as well. In terms of personality there is know doubt that he is not the stereotypical businessmen. This is the guy who shut down the office and paid his workers to go out and help search for the missing daughter of one of his employees.

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Actually he was pretty poor at this at least in terms of campaign strategy. He was so desparate to avoid ending up like his dad that he tried to please everyone and in the end made twice as many mistakes as his dad made and exasperated his issues with consistancy. In terms of his personal campaign style I liked his Ask Mitt Anything townhalls and I liked his use of powerpoints. Again to compare to Bush who often relied on extracting a knee jerk reaction from people, Romney has the ability to in an educated fashion present an arguement for or against something.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I have more of a problem with delusional Mitt Romney supporters who think he's the savior of moderate Republicans, rather than Mitt himself.

To a point I agree. He is not a messiah for Moderate Republicans. However he is not as threatening as Hucky, Palin or Newt. Not a Savior but someone who can keep them from fleeing as fast as they would with the alternatives.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

"I saw my father march with Martin Luther King." (Romney's campaign later admitted that they didn't march on the same day, or in the same city)


"PETA is not happy that my dog likes fresh air." --on strapping his dog to the top of the car


"My sons are all adults and they've made decisions about their careers and they've chosen not to serve in the military and active duty and I respect their decision in that regard. One of the ways my sons are showing support for our nation is helping me get elected because they think I'd be a great president."


"You sit down with your attorneys and tell you what you have to do, but obviously the president of the United States has to do what's in the best interest of the United States against a potential threat." --on whether he would consult Congress about invading Iran


"I purchased a gun when I was a young man. I've been a hunter pretty much all my life." (Romney's campaign later said he'd been hunting twice, once when he was 15, and once in 2006 at a Republican fundraiser


"I'm not a big-game hunter. I've made that very clear. I've always been a rodent and rabbit hunter. Small varmints, if you will."


"Hugo Chavez has tried to steal an inspiring phrase 'Patria o muerte, venceremos.' It does not belong to him. It belongs to a free Cuba." --invoking a phrase that translates to "Fatherland or death, we shall overcome," which Fidel Castro has used to close his speeches for years, and which is associated with Cuban oppression


"Well, the question is kind of a non sequitur, if you will. And what I mean by that -- or a null set." --after being asked during a Republican debate whether is was a mistake to invade Iraq


"We should double Guantanamo!"


"I'm happy to learn that after I speak you're going to hear from Ann Coulter. That's a good thing. I think it's important to get the views of moderates." --right before Coulter called John Edwards a "f****t"




And Palin is the one with funny quotes?

That last one sounds like something Keystone Phil would say as a joke.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Was Romney really especially successful in government?  I know most people accept that he did well by the Winter Olympics (or whatever), but I've read some learned people suggest he essentially got run out of town on a rail in MA.  Was he taking the fall, or was he genuinely just not that effective?

He's still a smarmy SOB, and I'd prefer to vote for someone who isn't a reflexive and calculated liar (at least to that degree) -- but if he is he brilliant manager some of his supporters suggest...

Sigh, these threads lately.  Obama economy threads -- "Not sure I could vote for this guy."  Republican candidate threads -- "Not sure I could vote for any of these people."  Libertarian candidate -- "Not sure this guy bathes."  What a world.

Essentially he was run out of town both by the Democrats who despised him and by the McCain supporting wing of the Massachusetts GOP whose last Governor was Jane Swift, and She left the state in such a "wonderfull" condition compared to Romney. Then in the 2008 debates Romney got blamed for 175,000 Job losses by John McCain. The study cited by McCain, who also mistook Swift for Kerry Healey calling Swift Romney's Lt. Governor and pointed out that she was supporting him, included Job loss numbers starting in 2000 so most of that occured under the Cellucci and Swift administrations.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Romney is the phoniest, most plastic candidate I've ever seen. He clearly has no principles or convictions, and his charisma is that of a sleazy used car salesman. I don't know why he has any appeal at all amongst Republicans.

And having business knowledge doesn't mean he has a clue about economics, as the eight year legacy of Harvard MBA George W. Bush should have made apparent.

You are a hack.

Many thanks for that thought-provoking response.

Bush didn't govern at all like a Businessman would have. If you look at Bush's record in Business you see the reason is because he was piss poor at that.

Okay this is just getting annoying but to put it bluntly, Mitt Romney had twice as many delegates as Huckabee at the time of his withdrawl...

And it wouldn't have gotten any better for him so, naturally, he bowed out.

 

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Again, where's the proof? He won in GOP primary in less conservative states? Big deal. It's like the idea that Obama winning the Kansas caucus or whatever meant he had appeal there in the General. Mitt winning in Maine or Nevada didn't mean he appealed to the General electorate.

As for the latter point, uh, he only won those states because he was a Mormon. It had nothing to do with his ability to win over those voters on ideology.  

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Uh, what?

 

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This isn't about electability in the General. That doesn't mean that winning in that area isn't key to winning the nomination so, yeah, the South is the most important area to win in the GOP primary fights to actually, you know, win the nomination.

The identity politics and isolated culture of the South render it a very different environment as compared to the rest of the US. This has always been the case, since the colonial-era. The South a. likes its own, b. is willing to vote for extremists, and c. is very homogeneous in its nature. Notice I didn't call Huckabee an extremist. My point is this- the South is a different place, and it's a solid Republican constituency, meaning candidates with appeal condensed mainly in the South may have trouble breaking out, whereas other Republican candidates will still win the South. The south's not important in the primary to gauge viability or to build a winning coalition of delegates. 2008 is proof.

Actually very few of those states are mormon. Maine is Catholic and Congregationalist, Colorado is only 2% mormon. Idaho isn't as mormon as some people would think. The only real good examples that fit that, Phil, are Utah and Nevada.

Thanks Fezzy, as always -- very thought-provoking.

I didn't really mean to start a flame war between Romney's fans and his detractors...though I supposed one might break out.  Mainly, I wanted to gauge what one or two issues make Romney anathema to some and close to a panacea for others.  I now infer there are far more than just one or two.

Me?  I just like the guy and his family personally.  But I could never support someone so far to the right of me.

It is a shame really that a decent conversation is impossible on this. Romney may not be Satan like Becca thinks, however I completely disagree with some people and there attempts to elevate Romney to the status of a living god for he most certainly isn't.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The impression I got during the 2007/8 campaign was that Romney was willing to press any little point to hit the appropriate buttons with the right type of conservatives.  I remember in particular a debate, sometime in November I think, where Romney made a point of viciously attacking Huckabee for a program in Arkansas that offered scholarships to those in the very top of their high school classes, because children of illegal immigrants were eligible for them, or something to that effect---the sort of policy we should be encouraging, I feel, but Romney kept on bringing it up just to hit that "immigration" button.

Not that any politician doesn't do that sort of thing, but it's many, many things like that that make me extremely wary of supporting the guy, as I have absolutely no idea how he'll govern.

Plus, as a western Mass. man at heart, there are still some hard feelings from the Jane Swift days.  (Have a look-see at the 2008 Republican primary map by town for a bit of what I mean).

The problem is, I think Romney is the closest thing to my kind of Republican we're going to have in the race, so I may end up backing him in the end, though don't expect me to do it at any point before November 2011.

EDIT:  Padfoot:  Horse-faced?  If there's one thing Mr. I Look So Presidential isn't, it's horse-faced.

I would disagree with you that we should be supporting In state-tuition for Illegals. For Legal Immigrants, fine.

As for the East-West GOP divide in Massachusetts you are completely right.