SENATE RESOLUTION: Appropriations Freedom Resolution (Debating)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

SENATE RESOLUTION

To repeal the Paygo rule and allow more flexibility in the appropriation of funding in bills.

Be it resolved in the Atlasian Senate Assembled,

Appropriations Freedom Resolution

Section 1.

Article 2 shall be amended by striking section 7 with succeeding sections renumbered accordingly.

People's Regional Senate
Pending

Sponsor: Devout Centrist
Senate Designation: SR19:21

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The sponsor has 24 hours to commence an advocacy and the other Senators have an additional 48 hours to post their initial questions, comments and concerns.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

DEVOUT I WILL MOTION TO TABBLE THIS!!! ADVOCACY!!!!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You know what isn't sustainable? Continuously passing unfunded or massively underfunded bills. Labor doing exactly that was what go us to an over $900 billion deficit to begin with.  

The deficit was inherited from irl, correct? The Atlasian deficit is a lot lower than the current Federal deficit. I would also like to point out the the real life House of Representatives has a paygo rule, too.

Need I also remind you that much of our deficit spending in the past happened because of the Korean Civil War.

That is just factually innaccurate. Before the war even started we had the same deficit as the RL situation. 

The atlasian deficit is a lot lower precisely because we have had paygo in the House for almost two years and over a year in the Senate now.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

1. We did not pass a deficit funded tax cut in Atlasia
2. We have made sure that every bill since late 2017 has been funded
3. We have passed bills raising revenue.
4. We cut defense instead of increasing it.

That is why our deficit is lower than the RL situation. The idea that paygo is irrelevant to that is ridiculous to the highest degree. On what ing planet does it make sense to run on reducing the deficit and then the first thing you do is pull the damn plug and let the debt rush on in.

This doesn't liberate anything except liberate the Senators to be lazy, stupid and derelict in their duty! This resolution will put us all in the chains of China and Opec and any one else we will need to beg to buy our junk bonds.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would also like to point out the the real life House of Representatives has a paygo rule, too.

And they ignore it, we have not and that is precisely why we have not ballooned our deficit and instead have actually reduced it.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I'm not about to gratify such hyperbolic allegations of 'junk bonds' and unfounded fears about foreigners holding Atlasian debt. Paygo hurts deficit reduction. It forces members of Congress to find obscure ways of raising revenue or lowering spending to pass even the most minute spending increases.

If we're serious about deficit reduction, I urge my colleagues to start working on a pathway to a balanced budget. Federalists administrations have neglected deficit reduction just as much as other administrations have. I would be willing to work on reducing the Federal deficit; Paygo does not and has not accomplished that!

This is factually inaccurate when Federalist administrations have reduced the deficit compared to RL, we have raised revenues, we cut defense spending and we have avoided deficit funded tax cuts. We also avoided drastic cuts to health care. How can you state with a straight face such a bold face incorrect assertion that Federalists have neglected deficit reduction?

Again, paygo requires that new programs be funded. The notion that you can move towards a balanced budget while removing the safeguards that prevent us digging the hole deeper is ridiculous. Until now this had bipartisan support, it was championed by the Democrats in RL for instance.

Futhermore how does requiring programs be funded by definition, how does that worsen the deficit?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

SENATE RESOLUTION

To repeal the Paygo rule and allow more flexibility in the appropriation of funding in bills.

Be it resolved in the Atlasian Senate Assembled,

Appropriations Freedom Resolution

Section 1.

Article 2 of the New Senate Rules Resolution shall be amended by striking section 7 with succeeding sections renumbered accordingly.

Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

There is an inconsistency here. Earlier, it was said that we need to repeal paygo, "because it causes austerity". Yet at the same time they are complaining because we didn't eliminate the deficit completely, which would have been you know austerity.

Part of the reason we didn't go more aggressively towards reducing the deficit was for the sake of the economy and avoiding anything that would cause a recession, but we did still cut the deficit in half.


Also I would point out the Austerity issue was raised when we instituted this in 2017 and as I stated back then this was not aimed at all spending. It was aimed at long term appropriations and entitlements, making sure they had dedicated revenue streams.

It was never meant to apply to emergency measures and counter-cyclical stimulus. This is not a balanced budget amendment, it was carefully composed by myself on the house side at least precisely to ensure that was still possible.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The other problem is what comes afterwards. We are removing a rule that requires responsible legislating that has been respected for over a year by all parties, on the promise of a short term agenda that will reduce the deficit. The problem is that agenda is short term, and what comes afterwards.

What happens in the next administration or the one after that? What happens when the right decides to start being dumb and start pushing deficit funded tax cuts?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You cannot chase a moving target. If you cut the deficit overnight the recession it causes would expand the deficit before it ever balances. Which is case in point as to why this is not about Austerity at all, it is about being responsible adults instead of classic drunken sailors.

As for paygo being irrelevant to the deficit reduction, you cannot pump out a flooded ship before you plug the leak and you cannot unplug the leak and expect to be able to bail out water faster than it comes in. Visual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey6XGv8ddTI&t=102s

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Amendment is adopted also.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would support Tack's proposal in the AFE board thread if he were to offer such as an amendment.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What amendment was Tack considering?

I think it was posited in the petition thread but I cannot remember off hand.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Has a time table for when that will be ready been discussed with Encke or Mr. R?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

NAY

I would have preferred to wait for the data.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Did DC launch a coup on Yankee while I was away from the forum last night/today due to my anxiety?

Appears DC does not have any power, but given the motion passed anyway, NCY decided not to fret over an irrelevant technicality.

Pulling an ASV I see

DC decide did this once or twice in the past congress. Ironically my first reaction was to make a joke about Devout being an ontario sock. Frankly my preference would be that Ontario does these when I am not on/working etc and thus to keep things official, but as long as Ontario or myself certifies the final result, it should be fine.

The one downside is that the topic line doesn't get changed and the noticeboard as well, so when Devout or Ontario start a vote, they should really PM the members because this can lead to lower turnout with the topic line/noticeboard being updated later/not at all as happened here.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

technically time hasn't expired yet since Devout started it on Thursday at 11 AM, and wasn't able to get on after Tack voted and Ontario didn't call 24 hours for vote changes.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Did DC launch a coup on Yankee while I was away from the forum last night/today due to my anxiety?

Appears DC does not have any power, but given the motion passed anyway, NCY decided not to fret over an irrelevant technicality.

Pulling an ASV I see

DC decide did this once or twice in the past congress. Ironically my first reaction was to make a joke about Devout being an ontario sock. Frankly my preference would be that Ontario does these when I am not on/working etc and thus to keep things official, but as long as Ontario or myself certifies the final result, it should be fine.

The one downside is that the topic line doesn't get changed and the noticeboard as well, so when Devout or Ontario start a vote, they should really PM the members because this can lead to lower turnout with the topic line/noticeboard being updated later/not at all as happened here.

I mean you can do a lot of things in Congress if no one objects lol

ASV a couple times had a tendency to open a final vote on his own despite him not being speaker when I was running the Fremont legislature largely because I interpreted it as a desire for my job of sorts. ASV to his credit seems (along with Pericles) actually improved recently.

Of course your case is different as neither Fremont Senator is coming for your job lol.

I just interpret it as a desire to get things done, a desire that I share. If Devout Centrist wants to be co-deputy PPT or something, I will gladly make that happen to further that aim. For now the occasionally vote opening doesn't bother me, as long as he is PMing the members

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Vote on Final Passage of the Appropriations Freedom Resolution:


Aye (4): Comrade Funk, Devout Centrist, Ontario Progress and Tack50
Nay (1): NC Yankee
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (1): Vern1988.

This resolution has been adopted.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

SENATE RESOLUTION

To repeal the Paygo rule and allow more flexibility in the appropriation of funding in bills.

Be it resolved in the Atlasian Senate Assembled,

Appropriations Freedom Resolution

Section 1.

Article 2 of the New Senate Rules Resolution shall be amended by striking section 7 with succeeding sections renumbered accordingly.

People's Regional Senate
Passed 4-1 in the Atlasian Senate Assembled,