Kasich threatens to leave GOP (user search)
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  Kasich threatens to leave GOP (search mode)
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Author Topic: Kasich threatens to leave GOP  (Read 3203 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« on: October 02, 2017, 02:30:15 AM »
« edited: October 02, 2017, 03:06:35 AM by People's Speaker North Carolina Yankee »

The problem is that parties evolve over time, as do ideologies. Protectionism and nativism are traditionally conservative ideologies, the only reason people see this as alien is because for the last 30 years, the opposite has been conservative dogma. But it wasn't always that way, and it won't always remain that way. Traditionalism and societal stability (be it religious or otherwise in basis) has long been a fundamental tenant of Conservatism stretching back centuries, and both of them are at odds with the results of lassiez capitalism and free trade, especially the disruption of middle class communities, decline of schools, infrastructure and rise in crime, that all come with the factories going over seas.

Democrats have spent the last 15 years calling them racists and ignorant from their fancy houses in Los Angeles and the Upper East Side. While the Republican Party has at various points, lured them into the fold first with continually re-emphasizing social issues, and turning a wink and a nod to unsavory movements in exchange for energy and enthusiasm that they could co-opt and ride into power all the while singing themselves to sleep with fantasies about how once the top tax rate is 25%, everything will be gum drops and rainbows. So naturally, you now have WV voting 65% Romney, instead of 55% or 60% for Bill Clinton.


A lot of people who now are Republicans were either not old enough, or were Democrats in the 1980's. And a lot of the voters that powered the 1980's GOP are 1) Dead or 2) Overwhelmingly outnumbered electorally in those states and counties by changed demographics (looking at your Orange Country). So you take in a bunch of Jacksonian Democrats, lose or have get politically neutered, a large number of high end suburbanites. The end result is a party that is skeptical of trade and immigration.

But then the GOP donors react in horror when they realize the only way to win on such a platform requires them to moderate on economics to go after the Midwest and the decline of religion means social issues won't cut the cheese there. So they try to forcibly turn the clock back to 1985 on immigration, hoping that if they just can get immigration reform enough, the Latinos will fall in love with Randian economics and power them to victory for decades to come. Instead, this leads to the destruction of their golden boy savior from Florida (who was to that point the perfect candidate to unite the establishment and base) and once again reminds the base Republicans of why they revolted against the Bush family to begin win (See 2007 Immigration Bill), as well.

The Republican Establishment built this party over the years, slowly, without realizing it they build up a majority that disagrees fundamentally with it on economics because they were the only way to get to 51%. The current establishment are the rebels and insurgents who took over the party from the Rockefellers, the Movement Conservatives. The problems they seek to solve have not existed for almost 40 years, but they keep peddling the same solutions and the same answers, meanwhile the factories keep leaving and the schools get worse as the revenue dries up, crime goes up and housing values go down. The Democrats think you are evil, so they are not an option.

All you need to do is realize just how many of you there are, and how few the establishment there are. Then a 70 year old fruit cake takes a ride on an elevator.

I supported Romney in 2012 and supported Kasich from 2013 onward. But I predicted this transformation in 2012: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=146557.msg3145166#msg3145166

I am from the rust belt, I grew up driving past rusting factories and saw pain of a father who found himself lost in the modern economy. It is easy to pontificate, lecture and look down on people who worked liked hell and got rewarded by having their lives, their retirements, their families and their marriages wrecked.

He is not going to give a damn about your Hayek book. He is going to go out and vote for Donald Trump because he is tired of getting F@^K in the ass by the GOP establishment and treated like dirt by the Democrats.

The two party evolution marches on. As more high end technocrats leave for the Democrats, more lower middle class people will find refuge in the Republican Party. Either way you slice it their numbers are going to increase as a percentage of the party relative to the whole, meaning that while the next Republican President will likely be a mild mannered Midwest Governor or Senator, with a lot of experience and none of the qualities personality wise that define Trump, The agenda will largely be defined as responding to and answering the demands of the same impulses that propelled Trump to victory.

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2017, 03:13:51 AM »


Fox News TV hosts have a vote on war authorizations? Kasich retired in 2000 after challenging Bush in the primary for President.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2017, 01:07:00 AM »

Yes Kasich is a nasty person up close and personal.


The guy had an A rating from NumbersUSA for his Congressional record. He should have run like Romney did as an establishment border hawk and the fact that he hoped on board with Comprehensive reform in the same manner as Jeb and Marco meant that the entire establishment slate of candidates put their eggs in the same basket, after already stirring the base hornet's nest on the issue in 2013. Genius Mofos, GENIUS!!!

Clearly, if he was calculating on this issue, he must have had garbage pollsters.

Now if you want someone who truly did calculate his way to the nomination, Trump's team spent two years listening to talk radio and had a better understanding of the base and the GOP primary electorate than any one else, including Ted Cruz. Because they figured out what I said in my post a few pages back.

Kasich could have easily filled that void instead of Trump and the kicker is, Kasich was on Fox News and has filled in on talk radio as a host, so he had access to same information and ignored it.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2017, 01:18:50 AM »

Which Republicans since 1992 have been more accomplished than Kasich(with maybe the exception of McCain )

For the record this was why I endorsed him in 2013 and stuck with him for almost 3 years.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2017, 01:21:11 AM »

Yes Kasich is a nasty person up close and personal.


The guy had an A rating from NumbersUSA for his Congressional record. He should have run like Romney did as an establishment border hawk and the fact that he hoped on board with Comprehensive reform in the same manner as Jeb and Marco meant that the entire establishment slate of candidates put their eggs in the same basket, after already stirring the base hornet's nest on the issue in 2013. Genius Mofos, GENIUS!!!

Clearly, if he was calculating on this issue, he must have had garbage pollsters.

Now if you want someone who truly did calculate his way to the nomination, Trump's team spent two years listening to talk radio and had a better understanding of the base and the GOP primary electorate than any one else, including Ted Cruz. Because they figured out what I said in my post a few pages back.

Kasich could have easily filled that void instead of Trump and the kicker is, Kasich was on Fox News and has filled in on talk radio as a host, so he had access to same information and ignored it.


Kasich lost the nomination because of his decision to accept the medicaid expansion .

Romney passed the same healthcare bill in MA pretty much. Romney got the nomination because he was also better on immigration then then alleged true cons who opposed him like Perry, Gingrich etc. The only one who he could not claim that against was Santorum, but Santorum rose too late to seriously challenge him.

Immigration politics is a deciding factor in GOP primaries. McCain had to flip flop to get the nomination against Romney, Romney got the nomination 2012 and Trump got in 2016 largely because of this issue.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderators
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,118
United States


« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 02:56:14 AM »

Yes Kasich is a nasty person up close and personal.


The guy had an A rating from NumbersUSA for his Congressional record. He should have run like Romney did as an establishment border hawk and the fact that he hoped on board with Comprehensive reform in the same manner as Jeb and Marco meant that the entire establishment slate of candidates put their eggs in the same basket, after already stirring the base hornet's nest on the issue in 2013. Genius Mofos, GENIUS!!!

Clearly, if he was calculating on this issue, he must have had garbage pollsters.

Now if you want someone who truly did calculate his way to the nomination, Trump's team spent two years listening to talk radio and had a better understanding of the base and the GOP primary electorate than any one else, including Ted Cruz. Because they figured out what I said in my post a few pages back.

Kasich could have easily filled that void instead of Trump and the kicker is, Kasich was on Fox News and has filled in on talk radio as a host, so he had access to same information and ignored it.


Kasich lost the nomination because of his decision to accept the medicaid expansion .

Romney passed the same healthcare bill in MA pretty much. Romney got the nomination because he was also better on immigration then then alleged true cons who opposed him like Perry, Gingrich etc. The only one who he could not claim that against was Santorum, but Santorum rose too late to seriously challenge him.

Immigration politics is a deciding factor in GOP primaries. McCain had to flip flop to get the nomination against Romney, Romney got the nomination 2012 and Trump got in 2016 largely because of this issue.

Yes but Romney flipped flopped on it and promised throughout the 2012 campaign that he would repeal Obamacare fully , and when he signed Romneycare that healthcare plan was a republican plan. By 2013 it was democratic plan when Kasich signed on to it and that hurt him massively .


Also one of the main reasons Romney got the nomination in 2012 was the fact that the GOP field was so weak , and McCain got in 2008 because Rudy didnt campagin in IA,or NH making NH a race between Romney and McCain and McCain won just like in 2000. Romney had no shot without NH and this is what gave McCain the nomination .

Romney could have come back in Florida, but that is besides the point.

You can strip it down to weak field or whatever you want. But it doesn't change the fact that immigration was always Romney's ace in the hole whenever he faced tough opposition. It is also how he got noticed in 2007, because he cashed in on the anger at Bush and the establishment and McCain/Rudy over this issue and built up huge leads in IA and NH over the summer of 2007 based on that. The real reason though that Romney lost NH was Rudy pulled out of NH to focus all on FL, and that meant that most of the Rudy support in the state switched to McCain. Thompson fading and Brownback dropping out likewise enabled Huckabee to beat Romney in Iowa. 

And in 2012, both of the two serious challengers to Romney, were weak on this issue.

Failing to understand the dynamics of immigration politics within the GOP, is 75% of the reason that Trump is the President today.
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