SENATE BILL: The 'DREAM' Act (Law'd)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback Hostile? Has this Changed?
Status: waiting for clarficiation.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I support this amendment. I would also seek to have the words "completes four years...." defined as well with a minimum GPA and such.

This isn't something that we should give out to people, without getting some kind of benefit in return, like military service or a benefit to our economy/society with their knowledge. We want them to be contributing members of society, otherwise we are just legalizing them in one aspect and then leaving them with one foot in the shadows where the potential to get involved in criminal activity and such forth is high. This isn't something that you just hand out to these kids, it is a priviledge that you award to them in exchange for them working hard and earning it by proving they can contribute to society in a productive fashion.

We don't want this to be something that people can take advantage of, just showing up for a semester or two and getting handed a meaningless degree with a D average that will likely never be worth a damn when they seek a job, just so that they can have legal status.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Just so we don't forget, Ben's amendment is next.

See, page changes are very, very bad kids. It would help it if people paid attention daily, then I wouldn't forget things like this.


Scott's has passed, BEN'S IS NOW!!!


Scott, co-sponsorship doesn't provide for succession of sponsorship when the primary one leaves. You have to move to withdraw the legislation, Ben desire to take over sponsorship, and then a 48 hour objection period opened.

You're just deciding to ignore Senate tradition?

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Current_Senate_Rules,_Regulations,_and_Procedures

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What the hell are you talking about?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Current_Senate_Rules,_Regulations,_and_Procedures

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Clauses have been added to the section so it is clause 10 now, which I just posted.

So what are talking you, Mr. President?  

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This part of the OSPR hasn't been change at all that I know off, save it being slid around because of other clauses being added and so forth.

There may have been a time when I too misunderstood that clause, but certainly on the most recent cases, this is the procedure that I have used. Bgwah/Marokai may have been more flexible with this. I prefer the Bacon King model, call the 48 hours and let that wind down while Amendments are considered. That way you are getting it done, but it isn't interferring with the bill.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Senators have 48 hours to object to the assumption of sponsorship.


Scott do you still view it as hostile, oh what the hell it doesn't matter anyway since Franzl objected.

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Sponsor Feedback Hostile? Has this Changed?
Status: Objection entered by Senator Franzl. This Amendment is now at vote, please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Aye


Scott, does the amendment in your view punish students for taking electives? I can't see how any self respecting high school wouldn't teach these core areas. I am a little confused here as to how it impacts electives.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This will end tomorrow.


We should start working craft an exceptable education standard then.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Vote on Amendment 51:16

Aye (2): Ben and NC Yankee
Nay (5): Averroës Nix, Franzl, HagridoftheDeep, Marokai Blue and sbane
Abstain (1): Redalgo

Successor changed voted of predecessor Abstain => NAY (1): Scott
Vacant Seats (2): Bacon King and NVTownsend

The amendment has failed.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Start talking people. Who support's Hagrid's idea, who opposes it? Are there alternative standards possibilities that have support?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I just want the bill to have standards to ensure that immigrants work to have a successful academic life so that they won't end up trapped in poverty as a consequence of their disadvantaged starts here in Atlasia.  (Not sure if I already explained that part...)

^ This. The stated goal of the RL Dream act is the same, though certain versions are defficient, an all to common occurance of "Say one thing, do another" on immigration policy in general.

On another note, I'd advise the Senate to draw up a comprehensive plan that addresses the issue of immigration entirely, and not just one for those who are already here.  This bill may not be amnesty-related, but it still doesn't set any official immigration standards or simplify the process for potential legal migrants.

Are you suggesting that as a seperate legislative effort or as a part of this? As a seperate legislative effort, I would be willing to work on crafting parts of that.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Either's fine, really, but a separate bill might be a bit more appropriate depending on how significant it is.  I was surprised to go on the wiki and discover that after all these years, the Senate never got around to crafting an immigration policy.  I consider the DREAM Act a modest start.

It is Ebowed's fault. For some reason in 2007, the left got it in its head that Amnesty was a fire and forget it weapon on immigration reform. In fact dealing with those already here is only a small piece of a big pie. And direct, mass amnesty is the most counterproductive immigration policy any fool ever dreamed up.

Or maybe he was just lazy. Yea probably that. I really hope he pops in here because of this post. If he does, do I win something?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Hagrid, Ben, the rest?


I must commend you guys on the most intense and substantive debate on this topic of educational standards in this bill? It is trully amazing that such engagement was possible, never before have I seen such interest and involvement...

...I wish you lazy losers!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

cost estimate:

$.5 billion    administration, biometric systems
$.6 billion    military pay
$2.5  billion    public services (federal)
$2.1  billion    public services (regional)
-$1.1 billion    tax revenues (federal)
-$.6 billion    tax revenues (regional)

$ 4 billion net expenses  ($2.5 B federal, $1.5 B regional)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: Unstated
Status: Pending

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

That is because they are currently in a situation that wasn't their fault that they are in, but regardless are still in it and this is aimed at giving those who prove that they want to come into the system, want to be a benefit to society and such, a chance to correct that situation.

This will ensure that education and hardwork is priotized and thus that they have a better chance of success, rather than just legalizing them as is and leaving them on the fringes of society with higher than average poverty, dropout rates and crime rates. That won't help them and it won't help the country either.

I am surprised to see Franzl making the "Anti-Anchor Baby" argument and attaching it greater legitimacy, even as a devil's advocacy. Birthright citizenship does encourage illegal immigration, but I think that it is a much smaller group and not worth sacrificing an ideal to target them directly by removing said enocouragement. You have to be a women, of a certain age and pregnant for that to be a consideration, for one. Lastly, strong border, internal and workplace enforcement provide enough counter incentive, I would think. That is why I don't support changing the interpretation of the 14th like some of my fellow, more extreme border hawks do. I also am not nearly has hostile to immigration overall as the NumbersUSA crowd is overall.

As I have said countless times, you can carve out a select group who didn't choose to come here, and give them a break without encouraging future illegal immigration. However, when you remove the standards, you create an inducement for the parents to purposely try and come here illegally in the future under the assumption that the next round will include their child (since it seems we do this every 10 years and some never learn from the results ). When you create a mass amnesty that situation gets even worse. We have done that in the past and each time the next group coming in was larger then the one before. We can't rely on economic stagnation and destruction of the "Atlasian Dream" these people seek in the first place, just to ensure that the flow of illegals is stemmed. We need to have that same kind of situaiton regardless of how well the economy is doing.

But I probably haven't sold you on the contradiction have I?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: No Data
Status: Pending Feedback and Completion of Amendment 50:30 which also needs Feedback still.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

SPONSOR!!!!!!!!!

If I don't get some responses soon, there is no telling what my alt..ah...what "he" might do.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: Friendly
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object. 

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The amendment has passed.


Ben, would it have killed you to give feedback on both amendments No wonder your numbers are so low.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I thought you wanted to wait   50:31 is also friendly.

Until my amendmnet was done, yeah. But if I had the feedback thne and there it would have been efficient to dive right into the next one, after 50:30 was done.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: Friendly
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Interesting, I jsut noticed that I have been transcribing 50 instead of 51 on some of these amendment numbers. No big issue since it only happened once or twice and the amendment specfic numbers (1-33) are fine.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: No Data
Status: Error State.