The Imperial Dominion of the South's Legislature

[Associate Justice PiT]

     The election to the IDS Legislature is over a month away, anyway.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     The election to the IDS Legislature is over a month away, anyway.

Oh, it is?  Could you remind me what a game-time month is again?

     Emperor/LoD/AG elections are in even-numbered months, Legislative elections are in odd-numbered months. There is no such thing as a game-time month, if I understand you correctly.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     The election to the IDS Legislature is over a month away, anyway.

Oh, it is?  Could you remind me what a game-time month is again?

     Emperor/LoD/AG elections are in even-numbered months, Legislative elections are in odd-numbered months. There is no such thing as a game-time month, if I understand you correctly.

Oh, I see.  So I don't actually have to run for reelection until November?

     Indeed.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Eh, at least it's something for us to do.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     As Dibble argued, the titles we grant are not titles of nobility, since the title of, say, Emperor confers no powers or privileges on its holder beyond those held by Governors of other regions.

     The clause on slavery & involuntary servitude is essentially identical to the 13th Amendment to the United States Constitution, & I imagine identical to its current wording in the Second Constitution. It's not as if including the clause worded as such will suddenly cast thousands of prisoners into bondage.

     With that said, I do think we could take an important stance in favor of civil liberties by eliminating that exception, & would second the suggestion of my colleague Darth Yelnoc that we do so. I merely would not consider its inclusion as such grounds to oppose the ratification of this Constitution.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     As Dibble argued, the titles we grant are not titles of nobility, since the title of, say, Emperor confers no powers or privileges on its holder beyond those held by Governors of other regions.

     The clause on slavery & involuntary servitude is essentially identical to the 13th Amendment to the United States Constitution, & I imagine identical to its current wording in the Second Constitution. It's not as if including the clause worded as such will suddenly cast thousands of prisoners into bondage.

     With that said, I do think we could take an important stance in favor of civil liberties by eliminating that exception, & would second the suggestion of my colleague Darth Yelnoc that we do so. I merely would not consider its inclusion as such grounds to oppose the ratification of this Constitution.

I suppose if the first constitutional convention had the same provision on titles of nobility and our titles of office were not considered in the same category then I can let that one drop.

A government that will allow its citizens to be placed in bondage outside of a state penitentiary is not one that has any concern for the rights of its citizens and not one that I would feel comfortable administering Atlasia.

     To be fair, that was the argument that Judicial Overlord Dibble put forth. The Supreme Court has never ruled one way or the other on it, though I can't imagine why they would rule differently from what he stated on the matter.

     How about we elaborate it to "Slavery or involuntary servitude is forbidden in Atlasia, except as punishment for a crime, where it may only be administered within a penitentiary established for the purpose of holding convicted criminals"? A suggestion on the wording would be appreciated.

[Associate Justice PiT]

How about we elaborate it to "Slavery or involuntary servitude is forbidden in Atlasia, except as punishment for a crime, where it may only be administered within a penitentiary established for the purpose of holding convicted criminals"? A suggestion on the wording would be appreciated.

Wouldn't making it only applicable within the penitentiary take away using people who have been convicted of lower level crimes for doing community service type work like picking up trash on the side of the road?

     Well they couldn't be obligated to do community service, but it would exist as an option for them to avoid going to prison, which is what would happen otherwise.

[Associate Justice PiT]

How about we elaborate it to "Slavery or involuntary servitude is forbidden in Atlasia, except as punishment for a crime, where it may only be administered within a penitentiary established for the purpose of holding convicted criminals"? A suggestion on the wording would be appreciated.

Wouldn't making it only applicable within the penitentiary take away using people who have been convicted of lower level crimes for doing community service type work like picking up trash on the side of the road?

Well they couldn't be obligated to do community service, but it would exist as an option for them to avoid going to prison, which is what would happen otherwise.

Sometimes low flight risk convicts who are actually in prison are made to do such work. What about them?

     Well my intent, & one that I think Darth Yelnoc agrees with, is that it should be possible to impose involuntary servitude on the convicts who are actually in prison.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Something that occurred to me is that this convention is only meant to be a consolidation of the current Constitution. If we push for some actual substantive change here, it opens up a can of worms that we ought not open.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I will also vote to ratify it, though I find it slightly odd that the wording of several previously clear clauses was modernized.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I will also vote to ratify it, though I find it slightly odd that the wording of several previously clear clauses was modernized.

You are probably referring to those clauses that were originally copy/pasted from the Bill of Rights? The delegates felt it just made it easier for the modern person to read.

     I thought they were quite clear to begin with. It seems sort of patronizing to me to assume that people in Atlasia are not familiar with American Constitutional interpretation, though it doesn't really bother me either way.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     The election is next month. Since it seems likely that I will ascend to the Imperial Throne soon, I'll have to select a replacement.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     SoFE Teddy suggested that we pass this bill:

Federal Election Agent Act

1. In the event that the voting booth administrator, and all possible replacement administrators fail to open the regional voting booth on time, the Secretary of Federal Elections (under whatever name that position shall currently have) is permitted to act as the regional Election Agent, and open and administer said voting booth.

2. In the event that the administrator of voting certification has failed to certify the votes resulting from a regional election within the assigned deadline, the Secretary of Federal Elections (under whatever name that position shall currently have) is permitted to act as the regional Election Agent, and certify the voting results in the region.

     Thoughts?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I made some amendments to try to make it read better. Hopefully it does not change the content at all. Anyone is welcome to read & comment on it.

Federal Election Agent Act

1. In the event that the administrator of the voting booth for a regional election, and all possible replacement administrators fail to open the voting booth on time, the Secretary of Federal Elections or the holder of an equivalent office is permitted to act as the regional Election Agent, and open and administer said voting booth.

2. In the event that the administrator of voting certification has failed to certify the votes resulting from a regional election within the legally mandated deadline, the Secretary of Federal Elections or the holder of an equivalent office is permitted to act as the regional Election Agent, and certify the voting results of the election.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I introduced a bill right before I left the Legislature, but it is now without a sponsor. Could a Legislator please sponsor it so that we may move forward with it?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Many thanks to the Speaker for fulfilling this request.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     The last Lord of Darkness didn't do anything, so I took it upon myself as Imperial Speaker to discharge his duties. Sorry for the confusion over that.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     It's only been two months, actually. The one before that was very good, but he lost re-election. Stuff like that happens.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Ahem, are we forgetting something? On the Federal Election Agent Act: by the powers vested in me as Emperor of this region, I thus sign it into law.

     Be it resolved, X Emperor PiT

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Anyway, I will be happy to sign this bill, provided that a clause is included to repeal the Abortion Initiative.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Anyway, I will be happy to sign this bill, provided that a clause is included to repeal the Abortion Initiative.

I feel dumb now.  My bill would do exactly the same thing as this already existing law.

     Actually, your bill, with my change, would legalize second trimester abortions (should probably repeal the South Carolina & Louisiana bills too while we're at it). Now that's change I can believe in.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Anyway, I will be happy to sign this bill, provided that a clause is included to repeal the Abortion Initiative.

I feel dumb now.  My bill would do exactly the same thing as this already existing law.

     Actually, your bill, with my change, would legalize second trimester abortions (should probably repeal the South Carolina & Louisiana bills too while we're at it). Now that's change I can believe in.

1.  Isn't 90 days a trimester?
2.  Why do South Carolina each have independent bills?

     1. Roughly so. The oft-quoted figure of 40 weeks for a human pregnancy works out to 280 days, specifically.

     2. There wasn't enough support for fully outlawing abortion on demand, so for a brief time there was a law that allowed individual states to do so.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     And there are others who would prefer that we stay on this matter.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     And there are others who would prefer that we stay on this matter.

Ok then, let's stay on it.  What I'm saying is that the bill I introduced is already on the books.  I don't know what good pursuing it would do.  I am totalling open to someone else drafting a bill in a similiar vein has actual difference, though.

     Because of Darth Svensson's amendment, there is now an actual difference.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Maybe I am missing something obvious, but doesn't the bill, even with Svensson's amendment still substitute an apple for an apple?  I don't see the difference between the two laws other than word choice.

Your bill, plus my amendment, would push the abortion ban back another trimester, making it illegal only in the third.

Doesn't the Abortion Ban law only refer to the last trimester (90 day period)?

"It shall be against the law to induce an abortion in the Southeast Region after the 90th day of the pregnancy except in the case of a severe threat to the mother's health."

Basically, abortion is illegal, as it is, after three months - only one trimester.

Yes exactly.  And my bill would also only make it illegal for one trimester, i.e. 90 days.  So I don't see the difference.

     He means that it is currently legal for only one trimester. Passing this bill would legalize second trimester abortions (& in Louisiana & South Carolina, first trimester abortions as well).