McCain's citizenship

[Ljube]

No Act of Congress can be used to amend the Constitution. Neither can a Senate Resolution passed in April.

There are only two ways to settle this argument: A decision of the Supreme Court or an Amendment to the Constitution.

In my opinion, McCain is not a natural born citizen because in order to get his citizenship he had to go through a naturalization procedure. His naturalization was unquestionable and in accordance with a swift procedure, but it was naturalization nonetheless, and that makes him ineligible.

I am not saying that in case he gets elected he should not become President. I am saying that it would be contrary to the Constitution. There is yet time to resolve this once and for all. There should be a petition to the Supreme Court to give a definitive answer on this issue. If not, then who is to stop other naturalized citizens (Schwarzenegger) from running for President and becoming President?

[Ljube]

His birth certificate was issued by a foreign country.

Here's the link:

http://www.travel.state.gov/law/info/overseas/overseas_703.html

The term is “expeditious naturalization”.

This is not a frivolous issue. My comparison with Schwarzenegger may be exaggerated in view of other circumstances and purposefully so, but judging strictly on the issue of eligibility to the Office of President, McCain and Schwarzenegger are the same. Until the Supreme Court rules otherwise.

[Ljube]

Again, he was born on US soil in a US hospital to two US citizens on orders by the government.  He's as much of a natural-born citizen as you and I.  There are many precedents before this to make the argument that he isn't eligible baseless.  And when you consider he was vetted both for the 2008 run and the 2000 run on this, it's a non-issue.

US bases are not US soil, but barring that I agree with everything else you said.
Still, the wording of the Constitution excludes McCain from becoming President, in my opinion. However, my opinion is not relevant. It is the opinion of the Supreme Court that matters. And I think we need that Supreme Court ruling. Anyway, if McCain wins the election, someone is sure to petition the Supreme Court on the issue of McCain's eligibility and we will finally get a definitive answer.

[Ljube]

If McCain is not a "natural-born cititzen", then what is he exactly? Is/was he technically an immigrant?

In my opinion, he is an immigrant. He was naturalized expeditiously because his parents are/were US citizens.

About the other example, the extreme one, yes, that child too would be an immigrant and barred from running for President.

I agree that this is ridiculous, but such is the meaning of Article II, Section 1, Paragraph V of the Constitution. So, I see only two solutions:

1) The better one, but for which there isn't enough time left - Amendment to the Constitution
2) The alternative one, but with a risk of an outcome that would disgruntle 90% of people - Ruling of the Supreme Court

[Ljube]

"naturalized" = not a citizen at birth

McCain was not a US citizen at birth. He was citizen of Panama. Natural born citizen of Panama.

Because you automatically do become a citizen if your parent(s) are American, the place of birth is irrelevant.

You become a citizen automatically, but after a certain procedure and you are not a US citizen before you become a citizen of some other country, unless you are born on the premises of a US Embassy.

[Ljube]

The question is not whether McCain is a US citizen. Nobody disputes that. He could not be a US Senator otherwise. The question is whether he is a natural born US citizen. I believe he is not because he was naturalized. He and Arnold were both naturalized so if McCain can become President, so can Schwarzenegger. What do you think, why McCain is so soft on immigrants? And why Schwarzenegger supports him, even campaigns for him hoping to sway California?

[Ljube]

Moreover, there is a little thing called the "United States Code" which clarifies all kinds of things that are left open ended by the Constitution, and it has existed for quite a while now.

No Act, Law or Code can be used to amend the Constitution. There is a set procedure for adoption of Amendments to the Constitution. Laws can only define or "clarify" as you say what is not already defined in the Constitution.

[Ljube]

The only one debating here is you.

I don't dispute that. It seems futile to continue debating since hardly anyone understands what I'm talking about.

[Ljube]

The only one debating here is you.

I don't dispute that. It seems futile to continue debating since hardly anyone understands what I'm talking about.

No, I think you are the one who doesn't understand what you are talking about.  No where in the Constitution does it say that "only people born in the United States will be considered natural-born citizens" or anything of the sort.

I didn't offend anybody, so there is no need for you and the others to start offending me. I know perfectly well what I'm talking about, but nobody listens or understands.

I'll repeat once more, for the sake of clarity.

Constitution stipulates that only natural born citizen can become President. Nowhere in the Constitution is this term "natural born citizen" further defined (or mentioned). That opens room for interpretation. My interpretation is that a natural born citizen is citizen of the US at birth. Your interpretation is that in addition to this category, any person whose one or two parents are US citizens is also a natural born citizen. Your interpretation has merit. I don't agree with it, I have my own opinion backed by my reasoning, but I don't reject your opinion outright like you do mine.

Who can decide who is right? Can an Act of Congress settle the dispute? Can a Senate Resolution put things at rest? Obviously not. And why not? Because a term used in the Constitution cannot be defined in some other law. It can only be interpreted by the Supreme Court. Or amended (defined or deleted altogether) by an Amendment. That's what I was arguing about. Not eligibility of McCain. Sure I think he is ineligible, but my opinion does not matter. So in order to put all these disputes at rest we need a Supreme Court ruling. Or an Amendment which I would prefer.

It is wrong, dismissive and discriminatory to say that this is not an issue when some people consider it a very controversial problem.

[Ljube]

Citizens at birth are only those who are born in the US, because their birth certificate is issued by a US authority, while other US citizens who can be called citizens at birth according to new laws are in fact naturalized citizens. Again, the term used in a recent law (citizen at birth) obviously intended as a means of circumventing the Constitution can have no legal consequences on the condition for eligibility for Presidency.

Once again, I am not advocating that McCain should be barred from becoming President. I'm advocating a ruling of the Supreme Court that would define the term "natural born citizen".

[Ljube]

Come on, you cannot honestly say that I understand nothing. Obviously I understand what you are talking about, and I agree that it is more logical than my view, but I claim that it is not constitutional.