Israel bans Omar and Tlaib from entry (user search)
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  Israel bans Omar and Tlaib from entry (search mode)
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Author Topic: Israel bans Omar and Tlaib from entry  (Read 3039 times)
NOVA Green
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« on: August 16, 2019, 12:59:01 AM »

This is a completely idiotic decision by the Israeli Government....

I say this a full supporter of the Israeli right to be a Nation back in '48, fully backed by the Victors of WW II against Nazism & Fascism (But mainly US and UK driven in the UN).

One item that is frequently neglected is the history of British and French Colonialism in the region in the aftermath of WW I, and the defeat of the Ottoman Empire (Which arguably has caused some of the biggest 20th and 21st Century foreign policy issues within the region).

UK: Plays games in the region thinking it is all "Lawrence of Arabia" style gig based upon their Bourbon infused Encyclopedia Brittania references, while meanwhile they are eyeballing the "Jewel in the Crown" in South Asia, playing civilizations against civilizations in an era where the sun never sets on the British Empire.

France: Had it's own dark secrets when it came to the History of the Catholic Church and collaboration with Vichy in deportations of Jews to the Extermination Camps after Hitler decided to move towards the Endlösung.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Endl%C3%B6sung

Russia: Naturally sitting in the wings, hoping to play the politics in the Middle East as the most beaten up country in the War against the NAZIs, but with history of Pogroms and purges.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom

China: Doesn't care, because they are trying to rebuild their country after the massive suffering caused by the Asian-Fascist War Machine coming from Japan at the time.

The days of the Freedom Fighters of '48 are gone, the Kibbutz of the days have long since become tourist sites....

Techno and Rave Fests are still the gig in Tel Aviv....

Even עמוס עוז (Amos Oz) who fought in the Six Day War, and the Yom Kippur War who condemned the excesses of the Generals in his book "The Slopes of Lebanon" who helped influence the rise of the Israeli Peace Movement that became extremely influential especially once the political violence exploded as part of the 1st wave of the Palestinian Intifada, would be shocked to see how much his country has changed....

https://www.amazon.com/Slopes-Lebanon-Amos-Oz/dp/054763692X

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amos_Oz

My older sister is Orthodox Jewish, as are five nieces and two nephews, plus thus far three grandchildren for my older sister.

Two of Nieces lived in Israel in extremely Orthodox Communities for a Year in College....

Meanwhile the current leadership of Israel, that are in hot water for political corruption, pandering to  the 4% of the population in the Settler Regions of the West Bank play politics with Muslim-American members of Congress?

NO---- Israel is a pluralistic and democratic country in the Middle East, that has provided safe haven to Jews fleeing political persecution from throughout the World.

20% of the Population of Israel are Arab-Israeli (Vast majority Christian or Secular), although there are some issues when it comes to Civil Rights in certain regions of the Country.

Meanwhile across the street in the West Bank, again we are dealing with overwhelmingly Christian and Secular "Palestinian" populations that have deep roots with Israel for many decades.

This decision by the current Israeli Government appears to be more of a rejection of American Political House Reps to have travel rights through the Airport for cheap local political points, than any kind of legitimate argument at all.

Maybe the current Israeli Government believes that if Trump stays in the White House it might advance their interests better than a Democratic Presidential Administration?

If they believe that, they must be on the pipe, since American Democrats have been consistent supporters of Israel from Day One, and will continue to be to the present day....
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NOVA Green
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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2019, 07:18:01 PM »

Lmao: Tlaib doesn't want to come after all. Apparently not as interested in her grandmother as in boycotting Israel.



ok David B.....

So let's hypothetically say she simply wants to visit her Grandmother in the West Bank.

Where does she fly into other than Israel?

How else do you get there without flying into Syria, which is in a state of Civil War as we all know, or possibly Jordan....

Reality is that the Israeli Government essentially completely controls access to the West Bank, and under the Right-Wing Government Coalitions of Israel in recent years have weaponized access controls, to the point where foreign labor within the Israeli agricultural sector is increasingly Asian Labor, rather than Palestinian Labor.

That being said, as part of her visit to the region she was scheduled to meet with Arab-Israeli members of the Knesset along with Jewish-Israeli members of the Knesset.

Sounds to me like Netanyahu בנג'מין נתניהו is simply trying to create a fake issue to combat his decline of approvals and support among his minority coalition government ahead of the 9/17/19 Knesset Elections, where doing a cheap political stunt like this might help bank him support....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_2019_Israeli_legislative_election
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NOVA Green
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« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2019, 08:35:06 PM »

The overwhelming majority of Jewish-Americans oppose the extremist policies of the Settler Population and support a Two-State solution.

America was one of three major counties in the World that opened the borders to those fleeing religious persecution at the hands of the Nazis.  (America, Russia, Mexico).

As Millions fled the Holocaust to various points and the creation of a huge Jewish Diaspora (Once again just like the ten lost tribes of Israel), the Statue of Liberty was a beacon towards a new land, where the previous generation of Jews fleeing the pogroms of Central and Eastern Europe had migrated to, including legendary Labor activist Emma Goldman and many others working in the Textile industry of Manhattan.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Ten-Lost-Tribes-of-Israel

Although this seems like a lifetime ago, the special relationship between America and Israel goes back to the foundation of the modern state of Israel.

The rubber bullets used against demonstrators in the West Bank in the late '80s shifted public opinion not only among Jews in Israel, but also in America, against the tactics used where the military protection of land as a strategic buffer to prevent another attempted Arab Invasion of Israel turned into a permanent occupation regime....

Even the Settler Movement was designed more a series of military outposts for strategic control initially, rather than a full blown colonization of the West Bank....

That shifted sometime after the fall of the Soviet Union, where Israel as part of their own "Statue of Liberty" adds 2 Million in population from Central and Eastern Europe.

This creates not only a major cost burden on the Israeli State, but additionally how to assimilate all of the ethnic secular Jews, without taking away from the social service provisions from arguably one of the most generous "Welfare State" countries in the world when it comes to the declaration of human rights such as housing, jobs, food, etc?

Israeli politicians started to push the newer generation of Jewish Immigrants into the West Bank, frequently into situations that were more like ghettos than anything else, while at the same time refusing or delaying negotiations on a final two state solution....

I can be both a proud supporter of Israel and the Jewish Community, while also simultaneously recognizing the actual history, and the lack of response at the hands of the Center-Right Israeli Government over the past two decades....

Although Bibi might believe he is secure right now to continue these same types of policies, while him and his wealthy buddies pocket cash despite successive corruption inquiries, at some point there will be a new Coalition Government of Israel, and a new Administration in Washington....

Democrats in Washington will still continue to support Israel (As we have since '48), but the Evangelical Fundis that control US Foreign Policy on Israel are one trick pony's that still support "Jewish Conversion Programs", "Jews for Jesus" and all that crap, and they will have little influence come January 2021.

The Trump Administration has been supplying massive armaments to Saudi Arabia (One of the biggest enemy's of Israel) despite a congressional ban since the Crown Prince brutally murdered a Saudi Journalist within the Turkish Embassy....

I am a supporter of Israel, but there are multiple political parties and perspectives, and there is no such thing as a "blank check" to support one particular political party in Israel, where even a large majority of American Jews disagree with the direction of the current Government....



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NOVA Green
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2019, 05:14:30 PM »

America was one of three major counties in the World that opened the borders to those fleeing religious persecution at the hands of the Nazis.  (America, Russia, Mexico).

As Millions fled the Holocaust to various points and the creation of a huge Jewish Diaspora (Once again just like the ten lost tribes of Israel), the Statue of Liberty was a beacon towards a new land, where the previous generation of Jews fleeing the pogroms of Central and Eastern Europe had migrated to, including legendary Labor activist Emma Goldman and many others working in the Textile industry of Manhattan.
This isn't really true though... Most Jews immigrated to the U.S. far before the 30s and 40s, and throughout the 30s and 40s the U.S. mostly kept its borders closed to Jewish immigrants.

Well, I did reference the first major wave of Jewish Immigration to America.....   Wink

I'm sure that I am likely repeating facts you already know, but for the benefit of other readers on the Forum, for what is relatively recent history of only a few Generations back.... and I'll post a few links throughout the post for those interested in exploring the history of the Holocaust further.

So, if we look simply at the Jewish population of Germany, which was an estimated 525,000 in January of 1933 roughly 300,000 Jews emigrated prior to Kristallnacht (11/38) where the NAZI thugs finally achieved absolute power in Germany, initially mainly to neighboring countries....

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/german-jewish-refugees-1933-1939

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Germany

https://www.britannica.com/event/Kristallnacht

Unfortunately many of the refugees who fled were caught in the NAZI dragnet, as the Gestapo and the German bureaucracy meticulously chased down Jews in all of the occupied nations of Europe....

Politically active German Jews has much higher rates of emigration from '38 > '40 (Hence my reference to Mexico, the United States, and Russia).

Divided Memory: The NAZI Past in the Two Germanys by Jeffrey Herf published in 1997, goes into extensive detail on this subject with some 26 pages devoted to Mexico City, as well as several pages to thousands of Jewish Immigrants escaping the Holocaust aided by the Jewish-American Community in New York City, as well as many pages to German Communists that immigrated to Moscow....

https://www.amazon.com/Divided-Memory-Nazi-Past-Germanys/dp/0674213041/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=divided+memory&qid=1566162681&s=gateway&sr=8-1

Now, you are 100% correct that American Immigration policy, which was reinterpreted by Republican President Herbert Hoover, made it extremely difficult for political asylum seekers to obtain legal residency in the US in the early years of the Great Depression.

https://www.facinghistory.org/defying-nazis/america-and-holocaust

Catholic leader Father Charles Coughlin, used his airtime as a major radio host to essentially promote anti-semitic stereotypes and hatred against Jews in the US, while becoming an outspoken supporter of Fascist and Nazi regimes in Germany, Italy, and Japan by the later part of the 1930s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin

The "America First" Movement (Sound familiar?) , which included many leading industrialists was not only strongly opposed to US Entry into WW II, but additionally were essentially supporting the equivalent of American Brownshirts.

Woody Gutherie wrote a song called "America First" where he called out the Nazi/Fascist leading supporters in the US....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k83WArW5XU

So yes you are correct, in that the Jewish-American experience was long a rocky road of discrimination and racism, although I believe that the US Government can and should have done more in the 1930s, as should have many other countries, FDR's hands were tied from a US population that was increasingly nativist from the time of Palmer Raids and backlash against immigration in the early '20s, as well as increasing isolationalism and Republican gains in Congress shortly after FDR's '32 landslide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_Raids

The US enters WW II and proves to be a decisive influence in defeating Fascism and Nazi ideology in both Europe and Asia.

After WW II, the US pushed England and the United Nations to support the creation of an independent Israeli State, with Truman signing off the same day that Ben-Gurion proclaimed the establishment of the State of Israel.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/creation-israel

Israel since it's creation has been assailed by neighboring powers and countries from a wide range of backgrounds, and although I don't want to go into that whole discussion here, it is directly relevant to the topic at hand.

Israel created it's own equivalent "statue of liberty" as a new nation for all Jews fleeing persecution from throughout the world.

Built from scratch, under assault from day one, Israel in it's early decades, was in many ways a Socialist society, with some of the best government programs in the world when it came to housing, education, social services, etc.

Again, Amos Oz  (עמוס עוז)

RIP: 12/28/18..... Sad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amos_Oz

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Amos_Oz

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/postscript/what-israel-meant-to-amos-oz

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-how-amos-oz-became-the-cliche-of-the-good-zionist-1.6791630


Still, despite the dramatic change in Israeli population from the original Labor Zionist founders, to now a mixture of secular Jews from throughout the world, combined with a more hard-line settler population many of whom believe in reclaiming the Judea and Samaria, this is not a project that the overwhelming majority of American Jews support.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea_and_Samaria_Area

The banning of US Congressional leaders simply because of their political positions regarding the Palestinian situation, and religious affiliation, is simply unreal and unacceptable.

They had meetings scheduled with both Arab and Jewish members of the Knesset...

Bibi is simply once again looking for a scapegoat, knowing that Trump has his back....

That being said, I suspect after the 2020 US General Election attempts to play domestic politics, while meanwhile Bibi is dodging corruption charges within Israel, even if Bibi wins, something tells me that although the US support for Israel will continue to be strong and forceful as it has been since '48, the blank checks are done with....

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/14/732863477/how-possible-corruption-charges-could-threaten-benjamin-netanyahus-tenure












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