Why did WV vote for Bernie in the Democratic primary? (user search)
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  Why did WV vote for Bernie in the Democratic primary? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Why did WV vote for Bernie in the Democratic primary?  (Read 6805 times)
NOVA Green
Oregon Progressive
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« on: June 01, 2017, 12:19:52 AM »

West Virginia has always been a heavily unionized and protectionist state.  Sam reason why he won such a huge upset in Michigan, despite being behind by as much as 40 percent in some polls.

Gotta agree with Oldies Freak on this one....

Additionally, Bill Clinton barely lifted a finger to protect the Coal Miners and the UMWA during the '93 strike, at a time where the Coal Operators were trying to close down Union Mines and shift operations to Non-Union Mines elsewhere within the region and country.

West Virginia Democratic Primary voters have a long history of supporting candidates of religious minority background (JKF in '60, Bernie in '16) that actually spend some time in the state, and talk about the real bread and butter issues concerning the vast majority of the state.

Bernie talked a common sense language for those of us that were born and raised in rural and small Mill town communities....

Clinton '16 was a very different candidate from Clinton '08.... She spoke the language of suburban Democratic Voters in '16, and neglected the core Democratic values going back to the New Deal era, and instead tried to do a compare and contrast with Bernie, where she went after him on Guns of all things early in the Democratic Party Primary debates, and unlike even Dukakis in '88 I don't remember her once making a pitch for rural and small-town voters during the primaries or General Election....

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NOVA Green
Oregon Progressive
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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2017, 07:24:33 PM »

West Virginia has always been a heavily unionized and protectionist state.  Sam reason why he won such a huge upset in Michigan, despite being behind by as much as 40 percent in some polls.

Gotta agree with Oldies Freak on this one....

Additionally, Bill Clinton barely lifted a finger to protect the Coal Miners and the UMWA during the '93 strike, at a time where the Coal Operators were trying to close down Union Mines and shift operations to Non-Union Mines elsewhere within the region and country.

West Virginia Democratic Primary voters have a long history of supporting candidates of religious minority background (JKF in '60, Bernie in '16) that actually spend some time in the state, and talk about the real bread and butter issues concerning the vast majority of the state.

Bernie talked a common sense language for those of us that were born and raised in rural and small Mill town communities....

Clinton '16 was a very different candidate from Clinton '08.... She spoke the language of suburban Democratic Voters in '16, and neglected the core Democratic values going back to the New Deal era, and instead tried to do a compare and contrast with Bernie, where she went after him on Guns of all things early in the Democratic Party Primary debates, and unlike even Dukakis in '88 I don't remember her once making a pitch for rural and small-town voters during the primaries or General Election....



Or maybe they voted against this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksIXqxpQNt0

Bernie Sanders didn't speak any common sense, nor is he comparable to JFK. He's not as inspirational as you think outside of your little corner of socialism.



Thank you sir for once again providing an scintillating and extremely insightful analysis on the politics of West Virginia.

Once again, the high quality of your posts speak for themselves....

Sure, Clinton's statement on Coal definitely hurt her in this part of the country, but was one of only many factors that caused her Democratic Primary numbers to collapse in West Virginia, as well as other late Primary States, such as Kentucky for example, as well as in many of rural and small town communities throughout our great country.

Apparently sir, your knowledge of West Virginia politics is as extensive as your knowledge of the 1960 Democratic Primary, and the key role that West Virginia played in resetting the narrative within the '60 Dem Primary, where it was considered to be virtually impossible by all of the pundits that a Catholic could win in an overwhelmingly Evangelical and Protestant State.

Needless to say, in 2016 West Virginia Democratic Party voters supported a "Socialist Jewish" candidate, who actually talked about the real issues that WV Democrats were concerned about, traveled throughout the State listening, and sometimes agreeing to disagree, but *still showed up*, in a State that has long since been abandoned by both the Democratic and Republican Parties at the Presidential level....

Now Sir, I do not appreciate nor respect your personal attack, where you presume simply because of my current political avatar to make giant sweeping statements such as "He's not as inspirational outside of your little corner of Socialism".

I am assuming that you are unaware that even after the Democratic Primary and the General Election was over, Bernie Sanders went down a few months back to do a town Hall in the deepest part of Coal Country in WV, in a county that voted over 70% for Trump....

Sigh--- please take a bit more time before you post stale cliches and going off on a rampage against a poster whom you apparently presume certain opinions of solely because of that individuals avatar.

BTW: If you have some spare time, you might want to read this book, which I did almost 30 years ago, and West Virginia features prominately...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Making_of_the_President,_1960

Hell, here's where you can buy a copy....

https://www.amazon.com/Making-President-1960-THEODORE-WHITE/dp/B000O5M3QK

So, looking forward to chatting more with you later regarding the comparisons and contrasts between the '60 and '16 Democratic Primary Primary in West Virginia.....





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NOVA Green
Oregon Progressive
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Posts: 11,513
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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2017, 10:56:13 PM »

West Virginia has always been a heavily unionized and protectionist state.  Sam reason why he won such a huge upset in Michigan, despite being behind by as much as 40 percent in some polls.

Gotta agree with Oldies Freak on this one....

Additionally, Bill Clinton barely lifted a finger to protect the Coal Miners and the UMWA during the '93 strike, at a time where the Coal Operators were trying to close down Union Mines and shift operations to Non-Union Mines elsewhere within the region and country.

West Virginia Democratic Primary voters have a long history of supporting candidates of religious minority background (JKF in '60, Bernie in '16) that actually spend some time in the state, and talk about the real bread and butter issues concerning the vast majority of the state.

Bernie talked a common sense language for those of us that were born and raised in rural and small Mill town communities....

Clinton '16 was a very different candidate from Clinton '08.... She spoke the language of suburban Democratic Voters in '16, and neglected the core Democratic values going back to the New Deal era, and instead tried to do a compare and contrast with Bernie, where she went after him on Guns of all things early in the Democratic Party Primary debates, and unlike even Dukakis in '88 I don't remember her once making a pitch for rural and small-town voters during the primaries or General Election....




then how did Bill easily win WV in 96 if he was so hated there.

Old School Republican---- the conversation was about the Democratic Primary results of '16 and not the General Election Results of '96....

I am the well aware of the voting patterns in West Virginia in Presidential Elections over the Decades...

Since you brought up the GE results in WV in '96 and beyond, that is an entirely different question, but certainly worthy of discussion and debate in it's own right.

The reality is that although Coal has long been a symbolic Industry that the vast majority of West Virginians identify with as part of shared identity and social narrative, there haven't been that many jobs directly nor indirectly associated with the Coal Industry for quite some time....

Bill Clinton's win in WV in '92 and '96 was a lagging indicator, and not a leading indicator....

By that I mean that despite Bill Clinton not defending the Heart of Coal Country against a direct assault against the United Mine Workers of America, he was still able to perform relatively well within those parts of WV that had a high level of Ancestral Trade Union history, and was still able to hold up decent numbers in many rural counties in the State, where Coal was not King.

Throw in a Robert Dole, running against a Bill Clinton running for reelection, when we starting to recover from the Bush Senior recession, sure WV went for Bill Clinton by a decent number.

Ok--- so fast forward to 2000, Gore is associated with the failures of the Clinton Administration in WV.

As the Veep, he is considered to be a key player and rep of Clintonian economic policies... Throw in a bit of the "environmentalist" angle at a time where the reality of Democratic and Republican administrations alike busted the balls of the UMWA....

Why would a solid Union Democratic voter in WV support Al Gore? Why vote at all?

Bill Clinton and the Coal Operators busted the United Mine Workers of America, and now the Democrats in 2000 nominated an "Environmentalist" and meanwhile you have this supposed Moderate Faith Based Republican, at a time where many rural and small town voters were shifting heavily against the Free Trade Agenda of the Clinton Administration....

It is a sad, sad, day in America where Trump was actually able to successfully articulate a message that Bill Clinton and Barack Obama should have heard, despite all of these various Free Trade bills getting rammed through with Republican Votes in the House and Senate, and the only ones standing up were Democrats in the House and Senate, and few Republicans from Northern and Midwestern States.

Sorry.... There used to be a direct relation from the Coal Industry, to the Steel Industry, to the Auto Industry, as part of a supply-chain operation that helped make America the economic powerhouse that it was over 100 years ago.

There was a time only a few decades back, where the Steelworker Unions (USW), Auto Workers Uniolns (UAW), and Coal Miner Unions (UMWA) actually were able to present detailed presentations to management to how we could improve both economic production, while also maintaining the American Middle-Class among workers in these industries.

Unfortunately, under the leadership of Ronald Reagan the bosses turned directly towards Class War, and did not heed the advice of the USW, UAW, and UMW during the late '70s.

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NOVA Green
Oregon Progressive
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Posts: 11,513
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« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2017, 10:28:01 PM »

Apropos of nothing, I really need to stop mentally making a note to read NOVA Green's excellent posts and work later because they're so long but full of details and rich in content but I don't have the time to dig into them. I need to just spend a day or two reading his post history.

Thank you good Sir....

I recognize that one of my greatest weaknesses on Atlas is a lack of brevity, and one of my stronger areas involve frequently excessively long and complicated posts, that may or may not add value to the Forum (Outside of a few select areas)....

So, WV is a lot more than just Coal, but rather the part of a massive historical supply-chain the combined the strength of Coal as an Energy Resource from Union Mines in Appalachia, combined with Iron Ore from Union Mines of the Iron Range, mixed into the Union forges of places like Pittsburgh, to then head to the Union Auto Plants of Michigan.

This was a seminal work that I first read some 20 years ago about the Steel Industry, which I strongly recommend to anyone that has not yet read, and still sits proudly on my bookshelf.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt7zw9tb

https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/john-p-hoerr/and-the-wolf-finally-came-the-decline-of-the-am/

https://www.amazon.com/Wolf-Finally-Came-American-Pittsburgh/dp/0822953986

(Hate to promote a Monopoly organization, let alone promote any one place to buy a book vs another, but sure all of y'all know tons of alternate options of where to buy books on the internet) Smiley

So--- would highly recommend this work for those have you that haven't had the experience, and suddenly the relationships between Coal, Steel, and Auto sectors start to make a ton more sense, rather than the whole deal about the hyper-excessive "environmentalist vs jobs" false dichotomy that is way too prevalent on this topic.

Sorry--- been there done the whole jobs vs environment deal thing before, and whatever administration of whatever Party is in power in the Executive and Congressional branches owes WV and Coal Mining Communities in the US a giant "Thank You", not to mention a massive investment of capital into repairing rural communities that won us WW II, fueled the post-war boom in manufacturing, gets hit with "Black Lung" that has killed 100,000s of American Coal Miners in Appalachia, and then gets sidelined under Dem and Rep Presidential Administrations alike over the decades, and just less than a year ago agreed to help fund the costs of Black Lung to this day?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhdMRsPQryM


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