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  For Shell, Oil Is Past Its Peak (search mode)
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muon2
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« on: March 03, 2021, 10:56:47 PM »

Technological advances were happening to solves crises well before the second war. Plato's Republic has a phrase that loosely translates to our modern "Necessity is the mother of invention." In 1972 there was a popular piece of futurism called "The Limits to Growth" which was a big deal when I was in high school. It used computer modeling to forecast major sector assuming linear growth in tech with exponential growth in population. Global industrial production was supposed to be in decline earlier this century and food production was supposed to peak about now. It turns out that tech can also move exponentially, it just happens in spurts.

Before 2020 no vaccine had ever moved to market in less than 4 years. Covid drove innovation to use existing tools at a pace never seen before. I have no reason to think that Plato was wrong, and innovation will surge when societal pressure requires it.
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muon2
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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2021, 08:17:16 AM »

Technological advances were happening to solves crises well before the second war. Plato's Republic has a phrase that loosely translates to our modern "Necessity is the mother of invention." In 1972 there was a popular piece of futurism called "The Limits to Growth" which was a big deal when I was in high school. It used computer modeling to forecast major sector assuming linear growth in tech with exponential growth in population. Global industrial production was supposed to be in decline earlier this century and food production was supposed to peak about now. It turns out that tech can also move exponentially, it just happens in spurts.

Before 2020 no vaccine had ever moved to market in less than 4 years. Covid drove innovation to use existing tools at a pace never seen before. I have no reason to think that Plato was wrong, and innovation will surge when societal pressure requires it.

Advances happen, as you say, but they are by no means exponential in the field of energy production. "The Limits of Growth" was a first call of attention. The fact that computer modelling in 1972 was not as developed as it is nowadays (and still modelling has limitations, for the simple reason that complex systems like climate are infinitely variable) does not invalidate the main premises of that work, in my opinion. So far scientific advances and t6wchnological progress have not found a magic remedy to replace fossil fuels, while sustaining a continued economic growth. The problem appears nearly impossible to resolve. On the one hand,  econonic growth relies on non-renewable energy sources which have reached their peak in production ; on the other hand, economic growth based on fossil fuels are deteriorating the climate and the environment to a point of no return. Waiting for a miracle to come without undertaking actions or revising the model sounds like a foolish course of action.

In reply to The Birth of Babalon, Elon Musk is indeed a fraud and so far "green energies" need non-renewable components. Eco-fascism,  authoritarianism,  technocracy and increasing inequality are real menaces. We are heading towards a collapse or a dystopian model if we follow the same course as of now

As for the "peak oil",  you can find a lot of information in the ASPO webiste

http://www.aspo.be/en/peak-oil/


I'm not disputing peak oil. I'm disputing the idea that innovation can't replace it. 25 years ago I was talking to colleagues at Argonne National Lab who were doing energy research. They described a number of areas of energy storage they were working on including battery tech. At the time lithium-ion batteries were mostly small and expensive. But breakthroughs in the tech allow mass-production cars that can travel 300 mi/500 km on a charge - an incredible claim 25 years ago.

What makes innovation seem limited is our inability to forecast which tech advance becomes the breakthrough. That same researcher I spoke to 25 years ago also described two or three other technologies that to date haven't shown commercial viability. But it only took one to be successful.

Battery storage is just one part of the energy sector that needs to be revolutionized to move past fossil fuel as a primary energy source. But the research continues and as it was 25 years ago there are many ideas being pursued. I just don't know which ones will cause a breakthrough. My experience in research over the last 40 years is that some ideas will.
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