Were there any big cities in the South pre-1860?

[muon2]

By comparison Chicago had only been founded in 1833 with about 200 people, but had 112K people by 1860.

[muon2]

The article on Louisville lists its 1850 population as 43,194. That would make it the second largest city in the South, if it counts as a Southern city (I'd consider it just as Midwestern as Cincinnati, both now and then.)

Louisville was a strong pro-union city and helped keep KY out of the Confederacy. If Louisville counts as a southern city because of its slave status, then St Louis is a better example of a Midwestern river city in a slave state. In 1860 its population was 160,773 much bigger than Louisville at 68,032 and almost the equal of New Orleans.

[muon2]

The article on Louisville lists its 1850 population as 43,194. That would make it the second largest city in the South, if it counts as a Southern city (I'd consider it just as Midwestern as Cincinnati, both now and then.)

Louisville was a strong pro-union city and helped keep KY out of the Confederacy. If Louisville counts as a southern city because of its slave status, then St Louis is a better example of a Midwestern river city in a slave state. In 1860 its population was 160,773 much bigger than Louisville at 68,032 and almost the equal of New Orleans.

If you want evidence that Louisville was a strong pro-Union city, you need to provide better evidence than a New York Times article from January 1861.  Northern overestimates of the strength of Unionist sentiment throughout the South was a contributing cause to the eventual civil war.  It led the North to think that the threats of Southern secession were mere gasconade and even after secession occurred to think the policy was unpopular among the non-slaveowning class of the South and thus would quickly collapse with but a little effort on the part of the North.  While it was essentially impossible that war could have been avoided by January 1861, a sober realization of the strength of Southern sentiment might have gotten the North prepared for the major war to come sooner and thus led to its end sooner.

While I agree that the North underestimated Southern sentiment, I'll stand by my statement about Louisville largely backing the Union. Louisville voted in favor of Bell and the Union+Slavery in 1860. After secession river merchants were the most likely group to back the Confederates, but the blue collar meat packers and local professionals leaned Union and were the larger group. The Speed brothers in Jefferson county were arguably Lincoln's strongest allies in KY and actively organized in Louisville for Lincoln at the run up to the war.

[muon2]

The article on Louisville lists its 1850 population as 43,194. That would make it the second largest city in the South, if it counts as a Southern city (I'd consider it just as Midwestern as Cincinnati, both now and then.)

Louisville was a strong pro-union city and helped keep KY out of the Confederacy. If Louisville counts as a southern city because of its slave status, then St Louis is a better example of a Midwestern river city in a slave state. In 1860 its population was 160,773 much bigger than Louisville at 68,032 and almost the equal of New Orleans.

If you want evidence that Louisville was a strong pro-Union city, you need to provide better evidence than a New York Times article from January 1861.  Northern overestimates of the strength of Unionist sentiment throughout the South was a contributing cause to the eventual civil war.  It led the North to think that the threats of Southern secession were mere gasconade and even after secession occurred to think the policy was unpopular among the non-slaveowning class of the South and thus would quickly collapse with but a little effort on the part of the North.  While it was essentially impossible that war could have been avoided by January 1861, a sober realization of the strength of Southern sentiment might have gotten the North prepared for the major war to come sooner and thus led to its end sooner.

While I agree that the North underestimated Southern sentiment, I'll stand by my statement about Louisville largely backing the Union. Louisville voted in favor of Bell and the position of Union+Slavery in 1860. After secession river merchants were the most likely group to back the Confederates, but the blue collar meat packers and local professionals leaned Union and were the larger group. The Speed brothers in Jefferson county were arguably Lincoln's strongest allies in KY and actively organized in Louisville for Lincoln at the run up to the war.

[muon2]

I'm surprised that Kaskaskia, IL didn't show up on the list. It's the oldest city in the state and the site of the territorial government and the first state capital. It was a significant river town in the 1700's and at the time of statehood they claimed a population of about 7K.

[muon2]

It's impressive to me how Chicago made it from non-existence in 1830 (founded in 1833 with 200 residents) into the top 10 in the US by 1860. Of course it continued its explosive growth to be in the  the world top 10 by 1900.