Opinion of Obama's gun speech today

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I don't have a problem with making clear that gun shows and other dealers have to conduct background checks.  Probably won't make much difference, but it's possible it could save some lives without a huge downside and in that case it'd be worth it (though I do think even those who have committed crimes have some right to self-defense, particularly if it was nonviolent).     What I do have a problem with is the way these background checks have been expanded to those who have not committed any crimes or shown any propensity for violence due to their receiving certain services - this has been the case for a while with mental health services at the VA, and now it is being expanded to those who Social Security has determined are not able to manage their finances on their own.  The stigmatization and establishment of an incentive not to seek help is very troubling.  I don't know why this hasn't gotten more play.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What % of shootings (accidental or intentional, including suicides) are done by the hardened criminals who know how to get illegal black market guns and have the means to do so?

Right-wingers/libertarians always claim "no need for gun laws because the CRIMINALS will still get guns anyway!!!" and they're right in a sense that background checks and the like aren't going to prevent the career criminals with black market connections from getting the guns. But I suspect they don't account for the vast majority of shootings like the Right tries to portray.

(I'm actually asking BTW. I don't know the answer, and I'd like to.)

Unsurprisingly, none of the gunlovers even acknowledged my question, because they know it would undermine their entire overarching argument on guns.

"hardened criminals" is not a category which lends itself to statistical analysis, but here's what I found:

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http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/oct/05/joe-scarborough/msnbcs-joe-scarborough-tiny-fraction-crimes-commit/

Most criminal shootings don't result in a traceable murder weapon, so it's hard to know for sure, but it seems to be a small amount.  As for how many suicide and accidental gun deaths are from illegal weapons, I don't know.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

What % of shootings (accidental or intentional, including suicides) are done by the hardened criminals who know how to get illegal black market guns and have the means to do so?

Right-wingers/libertarians always claim "no need for gun laws because the CRIMINALS will still get guns anyway!!!" and they're right in a sense that background checks and the like aren't going to prevent the career criminals with black market connections from getting the guns. But I suspect they don't account for the vast majority of shootings like the Right tries to portray.

(I'm actually asking BTW. I don't know the answer, and I'd like to.)

Unsurprisingly, none of the gunlovers even acknowledged my question, because they know it would undermine their entire overarching argument on guns.

"hardened criminals" is not a category which lends itself to statistical analysis, but here's what I found:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/oct/05/joe-scarborough/msnbcs-joe-scarborough-tiny-fraction-crimes-commit/

Most criminal shootings don't result in a traceable murder weapon, so it's hard to know for sure, but it seems to be a small amount.  As for how many suicide and accidental gun deaths are from illegal weapons, I don't know.

That's interesting, but it's not exactly what I asked. I want to know how many murders, accidental shootings, and suicides are committed by people who are such criminals that they would flippantly purchase guns on the black market without regard to the law. The gun fanatics always imply that this number is practically 100%.

But if it's not 100%, it shoots holes in their argument that gun laws are useless.

what do you mean "flippantly"?   You don't need to be "such criminals" to purchase guns on the black market.  You just need a connection and a reason.   

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

what do you mean "flippantly"?   You don't need to be "such criminals" to purchase guns on the black market.  You just need a connection and a reason.   

People who knowingly break laws are being flippant to the government.

Again, gun enthusiasts imply that virtually all shootings are committed by people who don't follow laws and will just buy black market guns without regard to what's legal and what's not. I suspect that they greatly exaggerate the % of shootings (including accidents and suicides) that are committed by people with the necessary black market connections and necessary flippant attitude to do so.

And if I'm right, the whole argument of "gun control never works because criminals can get guns anyway!!!" doesn't really hold together logically.

Yes, you would keep some number of people from committing crimes with guns if you made it illegal to buy or keep guns.  How many we can't know, there inherently isn't data on this because it is a situation we don't have.  On the one hand, fewer legal guns probably means fewer guns overall to be put ont he black market. On the other, if you making something less legal, the black market demand will increase and suppliers will attempt to expand to fill this.
The crucial question is whether you or willing to keep the guns out of the hands of everyone else for an uncertain reduction in the use of guns in criminal activities.   And this is going to hinge a lot on the value you place on self-defense. The possibility of suicide meanwhile simply isn't as scary to most people as someone pulling a gun on them.  From an individualist perspective, if you are doing something to yourself, you at least have some measure of control or recourse to seek help if you are afraid you will harm yourself.