SENATE BILL: The Duke Corporate Tax Reform Act of 2013 (Amendment at Vote)

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Nay

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

As for Section II1, doesn't that mean that almost all companies will be exempt from capital gains?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I don't like where this is headed. In order to pay for all these tax breaks, the marginal rates will have to be astronomical.  I also have to question if we really an extremely protectionist policy that rewards businesses for laying off workers in other countries.  Discouraging economic activity elsewhere won't ultimately help us at home, and doesn't signal a business climate friendly to growth.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Nay

If we changed this to a standard tax credit amount (ex. $1000/job) I could support an increase in the maximums. 

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I will change my vote on the amendment to Aye.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

amendment

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[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

okay I'm not sure exactly what's going on here in terms of process.

In any case, if we have a flat credit of $1000, it means that all companies get the same tax benefit for providing a job. Using a percentage of the company's tax liability as thew current tax has it would mean that a large company would get much more tax benefit for providing a job than a smaller company would.   

We could alternately make the credit a percentage of the total in salaries paid out for the new jobs - which may tend toward fewer new jobs but better paid than with a $1000/job credit. Would you be more amenable to that TNF?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Aye

(it's moving in the right direction, still needs work)

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Wasn't that part of the amendment we just adopted?

Basically, though with a difference in wording and I thought I submitted that amendment first.
PPT/VP, I'm planning on putting forward another amendment anyway, so I'd like to withdraw the amendment on the floor.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I would like to offer this amendment instead:

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This is basically to help ensure that the tax credit is not an incentive to use reductions in pay to increase the number of employees.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The amendment at vote accidentally cuts out this phrase from the clause. I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but it needs to be there:

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We should add it in after the fact, then.

which clause was this?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Would it be fair to say that II.1. applies to pretty much all companies that do business in Atlasia?  I'm worried that this is way too generous.  It looks to me that like the government would end funding most business investments in Atlasia mostly through the tax code and we'd have less revenue than if we didn't even have a corporate income tax at all.  I'd be more comfortable just having these investments be tax deductible.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Would it be fair to say that II.1. applies to pretty much all companies that do business in Atlasia?  I'm worried that this is way too generous.  It looks to me that like the government would end funding most business investments in Atlasia mostly through the tax code and we'd have less revenue than if we didn't even have a corporate income tax at all.  I'd be more comfortable just having these investments be tax deductible.

No. It applies to Atlasian companies aka those that are incorporated in Atlasia.

I was assuming that, but didn't spell it out. It's a huge revenue loss regardless.

Why are we giving them a tax credit for more than one year?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

That clause just looks to me like a major corporate welfare program and I'm afraid it will bankrupt us.   I have asked the GM for a couple figures that will help us determine how much it will cost. 

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Request acknowledged - my office will make it a priority.

Much appreciated!

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Also, about how much do Atlasian companies pay in capital gains taxes?

Short-term, or long-term? I can't find a special long-term rate anywhere, and I'm not sure whether  I should assume that those capital gains are taxed at the same rate as other income or not at all. I might need to consult with the previous GM about this.

Yeah, when I was GM I wasn't sure what to do with it.  I think I treated the rate as less the Atlasian rate the same amount as the capital gains rate is less the rate IRL.    Do you have figures for the capital gains themselves?

Yes; my figure for 2013 long-term capital gains is $435 billion, although I would have to adjust that number if capital gains are taxed differently than they are IRL.

So for now we can say that it looks like most companies will be getting the full 150% cumulative rebate on their capital gains taxes, since the value of their investments will tend to be much greater than that.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

If that's too big of a hit on our short term revenues, we can strike that from the bill. Or come up with an alternative to encourage domestic investments.

What if we came up with two capital gains rates:  one for profits from foreign investment and a lower one for profits from domestic investments?  It seems like we need to establish a capital gains tax rate anyway.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Nix didn't find any rates, nor did I, in Atlasian law.  However, going by IRL corporations pay the same capital gains rates as their other income - it is individuals and non-incorporated businesses that pay the lower rate.

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http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/key-elements/capital-gains/how-taxed.cfm

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Should I.3. say "income collected within the borders of Atlasia"?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

AYE