Pro-lifers, how do you explain Romania under Ceausescu? (user search)
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  Pro-lifers, how do you explain Romania under Ceausescu? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Pro-lifers, how do you explain Romania under Ceausescu?  (Read 5660 times)
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shua
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« on: October 26, 2013, 02:09:21 PM »
« edited: October 26, 2013, 02:15:01 PM by shua »

A small percentage of pro-lifers want to ban birth control pills because they believe they can cause abortions.  I don't know of anyone who wants to ban condoms or books about human sexuality, even if they are not enthusiastic about them - that's not a mainstream pro-life position. 

I do think that pro-lifers need to consider the unintended consequences of their positions - and would be a lot more effective if they did.  Whether an outright complete abortion ban would be best or if there is another combination of policies that would be better for the protection of life is to my mind an open question.  In either case I don't expect things will be the same as under Ceausescu.
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shua
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2013, 08:14:02 PM »

Why should the US restrict abortion access to that extent, given the historical consequences of restricting abortion access?

"Blacks commit a disproportionate amount of crime, especially young black men. Therefore black mother's should be allowed to smother their 5 year olds in order to prevent them from growing up into criminals."

The above argument is wrong because the 5 year olds are persons. Regardless of their future potential to cause harm, they have a right to life because they are persons. Unless you're a utilitarian or something similar, the question of abortion ultimately boils down to one question "When does one become a person?".

I agree that the pro-life movement needs to have a broader agenda, but the social consequences argument doesn't really address the pro-life movement's issues and it has the potential to lead to monstrous results.

Except that we already know 5 year olds are persons. There's nothing disputable about that. We know beyond the shadow of a doubt that personhood begins when one is born. That's why we have birth certificates and start counting our age from the day we were born. We don't celebrate our "conception day" or issue a certificate of conception to a pregnant woman.

We start counting our age from the day we are born because we know when it is.  I guess we could celebrate our conception week give or take a few days, but that might get confusing.
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🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
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Posts: 25,807
Nepal


Political Matrix
E: 1.29, S: -0.70

WWW
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2013, 03:11:50 PM »

Carrying them to term arguably isn't the problem. It's the 18+ years of obligation and sacrifice that come afterward.

Adoption isn't a viable option. Black and Hispanic mothers who put their kids up for adoption aren't really putting their kids up for adoption - they're handing them over to foster care for 18 years. Adoption is the plan of last resort for most parents these days, after every kind of medical intervention has failed.

On what basis are you saying that they aren't really putting them up for adoption?  If the parent wants the child to be adopted, then there are adoption agencies and other resources to help them through that process. The foster care system isn't meant for that - they place children who are already in foster care. 
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