Did that thread about a woman's atlas get deleted?

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Why?

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Ok, so I'll just restate what I was asking Nathan, who was being very respectful and answering my questions. It is a fact that the vast majority of people who are interested in politics, male and female, are interested in the social policy aspect of it, as well as supporting/opposing candidates and parties. Interest in political maps is a niche within that, and it seems as if men are mostly interested in it. If this is due to socialization, how is that the case? I understand how socialization can cause women to avoid fields like Math but our website? How?

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The MikadoForum hates women.

FTFY

I don't know if you saw my posts in the thread before it got deleted so I am not sure if this directed at me. If it is, please address why you think I hate women. If it is not the case, feel free to ignore this post.

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All I will say is that I didn't appreciate the timing of the deletion of that thread...looked like we were finally getting some real discussion. Somebody didn't like that.

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I'm still not sure how this website, or it's contents could be seen as off limits to women. Nathan claims it is the statistics part of it, but I don't quite associate statistics with our maps....also it needs to be said of the people who actually visit and use the maps, there could be a 3:1 ratio of men to women. Perhaps most of them just don't register for the forum.

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And now that I think about it, a compounding reason for the utter lack of women in this forum is that posting on Internet forums, especially about things like politics, are considered to be a male's domain. So a 3:1 ratio of men show up here due to inherent differences between the genders, and of those mostly men stick around due to cultural factors. Looks like I solved the mystery.

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I'm still not sure how this website, or it's contents could be seen as off limits to women. Nathan claims it is the statistics part of it, but I don't quite associate statistics with our maps....also it needs to be said of the people who actually visit and use the maps, there could be a 3:1 ratio of men to women. Perhaps most of them just don't register for the forum.

You don't see how the way society is structured and the way gender roles and expectations work would preclude women from this stuff?

Not really, no. But you are free to explain why. Nathan said it is because this is another form of statistics, but I don't quite buy that.

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I'm still not sure how this website, or it's contents could be seen as off limits to women. Nathan claims it is the statistics part of it, but I don't quite associate statistics with our maps....also it needs to be said of the people who actually visit and use the maps, there could be a 3:1 ratio of men to women. Perhaps most of them just don't register for the forum.

You don't see how the way society is structured and the way gender roles and expectations work would preclude women from this stuff?

Not really, no. But you are free to explain why. Nathan said it is because this is another form of statistics, but I don't quite buy that.

Ok, so first of all, there is a role for men as eccentric geniuses which does not exist for women. Women are judged predominantly based on their appearance and on their ability to interact socially and fit into the mold. This means that way fewer women become what we call 'nerds'. I'll preempt the jokes about how this is a good thing for them by pointing out that it definitely is a highly explanatory factor behind the lower wages women tend to get. It also means that women are generally less likely to be found on specialized internet forums. A woman is much less likely to find social acceptance for an odd interest like electoral maps and is thus more likely to stay away from it.

This is a bit of a brief and shallow take on it, granted, but I would think it's sufficient for someone to get it unless they're completely oblivious to these things.

Ok, I get your point but I disagree with it. I don't think it's socially more acceptable for men to have such interests. I think you could make the case men don't care and still pursue those interests more than women?

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And is it really sexist to suggest that men and women might have different interests that is not a result of socialization? There are physical differences between men and women. Is it a stretch to say there can be differences in our interests?

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And is it really sexist to suggest that men and women might have different interests that is not a result of socialization? There are physical differences between men and women. Is it a stretch to say there can be differences in our interests?

Again, notice how the sorts of people who, in the past, have inferred the idea of intellectual/psychological differences based on physical differences have have since then been proven, not only wrong, but also morally bankrupt. Please, let's not do the same mistakes over and over again.

Intellectual differences? That implies I am suggesting women are "too dumb" to be on the atlas. That's farther from the truth and I believe that is the case for Memphis as well. I really widh you people would drop the sexist accusations because all it does is shut down conversation. There can be differences in interests between men and women that can have a biological basis. The way I see it is that the burden of proof is on your side to prove how women have been socialized to not participate in websites like the atlas.

As I have admitted above, there is probably a social aspect to this since women usually aren't expected to spend their time on online forums. But what sets us apart from other forums is the content which leads to the ridiculous gender ratio...

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Yes there are psychological differences. The word intellectual just reeks of implications of smarts and cognitive capabilities, which is not my argument at all.

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Are you guys seriously arguing that, if not for societal influences, women and men would think exactly the same? Because that's wrong. There are physiological and anatomical differences between the average male and female brains, and these affect how the two sexes think, resulting in, yes, "psychological" and "intellectual" differences. This shouldn't be controversial. It's basic science.

The argument as I see it is whether or not there are differences (I don't feel that it's clear either way) they almost certainly don't lead to places like this being 99% male (as opposed to maybe 75%) and that social factors do influence things too.

No doubt about that, but I am fairly sure the ratio of interest in our website's material is a 3:1 men to women ratio at best. There are societal reasons for why forums tend to be dominated by males.

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Would anyone mind if I euthanized this terrible, terrible thread?

Yes, I would. I don't see what's so "terrible, terrible" about it. Is it terrible if we don't accept this dogma about every difference in men and women being caused by society?

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Isn't it a nonsense arguing that "all differences are biological" as well? The biological determinism can be as boring as the fundamentalism concerning gender theories. I can hardly enjoy arguments between fundamentalists in general. Don't you realize that probably biological and societal factors interact in a way that is probably very complex and out of the scope of an internet forum? And all of this because someone asked why are so few women here. If I were one, I'd be laughing or I would go out running. I think this is a terrible thread with some good replies to Memphis' nonsense. I won't be sad if someone deletes or locks it.

I am not arguing that. I was the first one who mentioned there is likely an interplay of biological and social reasons for the gender split here.

Also, I'm not locking this.

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Yeah, Opebo should apologize.

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Gustaf, what sort of sexual harassment laws do you guys have in Sweden? The comment "good thing I can't stay mad at you with those eyes and that ass" would lead to an instant lawsuit here in America. These things may be said in private between men, but never to a woman's face.

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Gustaf, what sort of sexual harassment laws do you guys have in Sweden? The comment "good thing I can't stay mad at you with those eyes and that ass" would lead to an instant lawsuit here in America. These things may be said in private between men, but never to a woman's face.

Of course you could sue over it. Do you think a woman with a reputation of having no sense of humour about an innocent joke like that would be hired again?

Sweden has extremely favourable sexual harassment laws for the victim.

How would they know? In any case, most workplaces take sexual harassment very seriously. I am not sure if that is the case in Sweden or not. If I was a manager, even totally ignoring the woman's plight, I would fire that guy. The consequences are just too steep for the company since they would have to pay off lawsuits and of course creating a hostile culture for half the workforce is not good for business.

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The lack of empathy here is pretty astounding, in a way that proves Walter Benjamin's point about fashion dictating empathy rather than the other way round.

Lack of empathy that women are socially discouraged from posting on the atlas forum? Let us not forget that was what this thread was about.

Women do face challenges getting into certain professions and men do too.

Also, what's up with the hating on nursing? I would argue that is one of the best professions to get into currently. At least here in America. And they do get paid more than the median wage, in some cases way more. I find it funny that those of you who are so bent on protecting women from discrimination would put down a profession that has a lot of women like that. Nursing is a tough job and a very important job. It's not all about "comforting" patients or crap like that. Maybe some of you should step out in the real world instead of being brainwashed by your humanities classes.

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Ok, there is no sexual harassment or discrimination of women anywhere in the US because it is against the law. If you think that I'm sorry, but I don't think anything I can do would change your mind.

Sbane, I'm not saying nursing is the worst job in the world. But it's certainly not the best either. And don't give me your "step into the real world" crap. You're the one saying women can't be discriminated against because it's illegal, so...

That sort of blatant in your face discrimination would not occur in the US without consequences for that person. That doesn't mean women or minorities don't face quieter discrimination.

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Gustaf, one of your links is from 1989 and another is from 1994. The one from 2000 is the most recent. I am not saying there is no gender discrimination, but this is one facet of society that has been changing for the better recently.