Smid's Diplomacy Game Thread #1

[Smid]

I received two sets of (identical) build orders for Russia, from Gustaf and Lunar, so that order will stand. France is building a fleet in Brest, England an army in Edinburgh, Turkey will disband the fleet in Tuscany. I'll update the map tonight.

[Smid]

Just a reminder/apology that I'll be a little delayed in updating the maps tomorrow as I'm babysitting for my boss tonight and there is no internet connection from there. I'll probably be updating about the same time as last week.

[Smid]

The moves for Spring 1908 were:



France
F Brest - Mid-Atlantic Ocean
A Burgundy Supports A Ruhr - Munich
F Gulf of Lyon - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Bounce*)
F Marseilles - Gulf of Lyon (*Fails*)
A Munich - Tyrolia
A Ruhr - Munich
A Sevastopol - Armenia
F Tunis Supports F Gulf of Lyon - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Venice Supports A Munich - Tyrolia (*Dislodged*)

Russia
A Budapest - Vienna
A Finland - Norway (*Disbanded*)
F Gulf of Bothnia - Sweden (*Fails*)
F Ionian Sea Supports F Naples - Tyrrhenian Sea
F Livonia - Baltic Sea (*Fails*)
A Moscow Supports A St Petersburg
A Rumania - Sevastopol
A Silesia - Prussia
A St Petersburg Holds
A Trieste Supports A Rome - Venice
A Tyrolia - Bohemia
A Warsaw Supports A Silesia - Prussia

Italy
F Naples - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Bounce*)
A Rome - Venice

Germany
N/A

Austria-Hungary
N/A

Turkey
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Ionian Sea (*Cut*)

England
F Baltic Sea - Gulf of Bothnia (*Fails*)
F Barents Sea - St Petersburg (nc) (*Fails*)
F Berlin Supports F Kiel
A Denmark Supports F Skaggerak - Sweden
A Edinburgh - Belgium
F Kiel Supports F Berlin
F North Sea Convoys A Edinburgh - Belgium
A Norway Supports F Sweden - Finland
F Skagerrak - Sweden
F Sweden - Finland

Resolved, the map appears thus:



And pre-retreats, the map is:



There is only one necessary retreat - the French Army in Venice.

[Smid]

Wait, attacking cuts off support, right?

If I attack Norway and Sweden, then only one unit can attack Finland unsupported, right?  How could that succeed?

On page 10 of the Rulebook:

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It goes on to provide an example in Diagram 16. The example is:

Germany
A Prussia - Warsaw
A Silesia S A Prussia - Warsaw

Russia
A Warsaw - Silesia.

The comment in the rules are:

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Your army in Finland would have cut support if the army in Norway was supporting F Bar - StP (nc), but because it was supporting into Finland, it didn't cut the support.

Sweden was the unit moving, so the attack on Finland from Sweden isn't affected by the Fleet in the Gulf of Bothnia. The move into Sweden fails because Skaggerak was supported by Denmark.

Sorry about any mixup there.

[Smid]

The French Army retreats from Venice to Apulia:

[Smid]

Some Drama:

1) Will France try and squash the last drop of life out of Turkey?
2) What will happen in Italy?
3) Can Lunar push Lewis back out of Finland and hold the North?
4) Where will Lewis go after StP - should he get it ?  He'll only have 2-3 armies and all of my other SC's are inland!  Will he let France get the lion's share of everything else?

Tune in next time, same bat-time, same bat-channel...!

[Smid]

Moves this week are:



France
A Apulia - Naples
A Armenia - Ankara
A Burgundy - Munich (*Fails*)
F Gulf of Lyon - Tyrrhenian Sea
F Marseiles - Gulf of Lyon
F Mid-Atlantic Ocean - Western Mediterranean
A Munich - Bohemia (*Fails*)
F Tunis Supports F Gulf of Lyon - Tyrrhenian Sea (*Dislodged*)
A Tyrolia Supports A Munich - Bohemia (*Dislodged*)

Russia
A Bohemia Supports A Warsaw - Silesia (*Cut*)
F Gulf of Bothnia - Baltic Sea
F Ionian Sea Supports F Tyrrhenian Sea - Tunis
F Livonia Supports F Gulf of Bothnia - Baltic Sea
A Moscow - Sevastopol
A Prussia - Berlin (*Fails*)
A Sevastopol - Armenia
A St Petersburg - Norway (*Dislodged*)
A Trieste - Tyrolia
A Vienna Supports A Trieste - Tyrolia
A Warsaw - Silesia

Italy
F Naples - Rome
A Venice Supports A Trieste - Tyrolia

Germany
N/A

Austria-Hungary
N/A

Turkey
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Tunis

England
F Baltic Sea - Livonia (*Dislodged*)
F Barents Sea Supports F Finland - St Petersburg (sc)
A Belgium Hold
F Berlin Supports F Kiel (*Cut*)
A Denmark - Sweden
F Finland - St Petersburg (sc)
F Kiel Supports F Berlin
F North Sea Hold
A Norway Supports F Finland - St Petersburg (sc)
F Sweden - Gulf of Bothnia

The map therefore appears thus:



There are a number of retreats required, including:

Russian Army in St Petersburg;
English Fleet in Baltic Sea;
French Army in Tyrolia; and
French Fleet in Tunis; thus:

[Smid]

I've gone from King of Southern Italy to King of Northern Italy.

Doge of Venice and Rome.

[Smid]

The retreats were as follows:

France
F Tunis - North Africa
A Tyrolia - Piedmont

Russia
A St Petersburg - Moscow

England
F Baltic Sea - Denmark

Hence:



Subsequent to retreats, the map appears thus:



Nations have the following builds:

France
Remove 1

Russia
Build 1

Italy
No Change

Germany
No Change

Austria-Hungary
No Change

Turkey
No Change

England
Build 1

[Smid]

There was a way I could have stopped you from getting to the Baltic and take St Petersburg, btw. That actually was my first set of orders, but in the end I changed it because if you hadn't moved exactly like you did with your fleets, I would have destroyed my own fleet.

I didn't raise this with you previously because when you mentioned your change in orders, it wasn't specifically a rules query and I felt that it could therefore be coming dangerously close to stepping over the bounds of adjudicator and into the realm of advisor so I remained silent on this point, however pages 13 and 14 of the Rulebook deal with the issue of self-dislodgement (and in this case forced disbandment through self-dislodgement). This is from the top of page 13:

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Perhaps the next illustration details the circumstance of your Baltic Fleet (potentially) failing in a move order, resulting in self-dislodgement (the following example showing that self-dislodgement would not actually occur in that situation). From the top of the second column of page 13 now:

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The example in Diagram 23 shows the French army in Burgundy attempting to move to Marseilles, however the move fails, which is why the French army in Burgundy would have been dislodged if not for the no-self-dislodgement rule.

Page 14 mostly isn't relevent to this particular point, but is still interesting nonetheless.

The important point to note is that the support is "refused or negated when it would otherwise be legal." Effectively, the unit dislodging your fleet in the Baltic Sea would have not moved as the supporting unit's support would have been negated.

I haven't provided details of your original set of orders further then what you have publicly mentioned here, so I trust I haven't overstepped the bounds of privacy and impartiality.

[Smid]

I've received everyone's build orders, so I'll post them here now and update the map after I get home tonight.

France
Remove F Gulf of Lyon

Russia
Build A Warsaw

England
Build F Edinburgh

[Smid]

I've received everyone's build orders, so I'll post them here now and update the map after I get home tonight.

Liar!

Now we'll never know what to do

(but seriously don't bother, s'cool)

Oh, oops, sorry, my apologies - I'll do that now!

[Smid]

[Smid]

Here are the moves:



France
A Ankara - Constantinople
A Burgundy - Marseilles
A Munich - Silesia (*Fails*)
A Naples - Rome (*Dislodged*)
F North Africa - Tunis
A Piedmont - Tuscany
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Ionian Sea
F Western Mediterranean Supports F North Africa - Tunis

Russia
A Armenia - Ankara
F Baltic Sea - Berlin (*Disbanded*)
A Bohemia - Munich (*Fails*)
F Ionian Sea - Naples
F Livonia Supports A Moscow - St Petersburg
A Moscow - St Petersburg (*Bounce*)
A Prussia Supports F Baltic Sea - Berlin
A Sevastopol - Rumania
A Silesia Supports F Baltic Sea - Berlin (*Cut*)
A Tyrolia - Piedmont
A Vienna - Tyrolia
A Warsaw Supports F Livonia

Italy
F Rome Supports F Ionian Sea - Naples
A Venice Supports A Tyrolia - Piedmont

Germany
N/A

Austria-Hungary
N/A

Turkey
F Tunis - Tyrrhenian Sea

England
F Barents Sea Supports A Norway - St Petersburg
A Belgium - Ruhr
F Berlin Supports F Gulf of Bothnia - Baltic Sea
F Denmark Supports F Gulf of Bothnia - Baltic Sea
F Kiel Supports F Berlin
F North Sea - Helgoland Bight
A Norway - St Petersburg (*Bounce*)
F St Petersburg (sc) - Livonia (*Fails*)
A Sweden Hold

Before retreats, the map now appears thus:



Only one retreat is required, so if Jas wishes, he can post it here instead of PMing it to me: F Naples.

Lewis successfully applied last week's lesson on the rule preventing a unit belonging to a particular nation dislodging another unit belonging to that same nation.

[Smid]

Sorry guys, I just realised Jas PM'd me a provisional retreat with his initial move orders.

F Naples - Apulia

So the map is:



Again, sorry about the unnecessary delay.

[Smid]

I extend to you a formal invitation

travelling to the west of Switzerland, rather than the east, I presume...

[Smid]

I extend to you a formal invitation

travelling to the west of Switzerland, rather than the east, I presume...

No, I've decided to invade Switzerland on the next turn (parachuting in my Swedish army). How many supply centers are there in Switzerland again? Five, right? And I'm even allowed to build units there? Very cool.

Yes - five supply centres and counts as a home province. But you might want to deal with the Irish uprising first - there are three rebel armies there now...

[Smid]

My apologies on the delays today - I've had an exceptionally busy weekend. I'm updating it now. Lewis - correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't find your moves for this week among my PMs?

[Smid]

The moves for 1909 are:



France
A Apulia Supports F Ionian Sea - Naples
A Constantinople - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
F Ionian Sea - Naples
A Marseilles - Piedmont
A Munich - Tyrolia (*Dislodged*)
F Tunis Supports F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea
A Tuscany - Rome (*Disbanded*)
F Western Mediterranean - Tyrrhenian Sea

Russia
A Ankara Hold
A Bohemia - Munich
F Livonia Supports A Prussia
A Moscow Supports F Livonia
F Naples - Apulia (*Disbanded*)
A Piedmont - Tuscany
A Prussia Supports F Livonia
A Rumania - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
A Silesia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
A Tyrolia Supports A Bohemia - Munich
A Warsaw Supports A Prussia

Italy
F Rome Supports A Piedmont - Tuscany
A Venice Supports A Piedmont - Tuscany

Germany
N/A

Austria-Hungary
N/A

Turkey
F Tyrrhenian Sea - Naples (*Dislodged*)

England
F Baltic Sea Convoy A Sweden - Prussia
F Barents Sea Supports A Norway - St Petersburg
F Berlin Supports A Sweden - Prussia
F Denmark - Sweden (*Fails*)
F Helgoland Bight - Denmark (*Fails*)
F Kiel Supports F Berlin
F North Sea Holds
A Norway - St Petersburg
A Ruhr Supports A Munich (*Ordered to Move*)
F St Petersburg (sc) - Gulf of Bothnia
A Sweden - Prussia (*Fails*)

My apologies there in relation to losing your orders this week, Lewis.

The map therefore appears thus:



Otherwise, Turkey can retreat to the Gulf of Lyon, but will have no supply provinces and will be disbanded after that time. The Russian fleet in Naples is disbanded as there is no available province for a retreat. Jas included a provisional retreat (which is the only retreat available anyway) which is reflected in the map above:

France
A Munich - Burgundy

After which, the map appears as:



There are two build orders required, as France gained a province, and Russia had a unit disbanded. There are no further disbandments required.

Turkey thus exits the game. Good game, Erc, and we hope to see you again in a future game.

[Smid]

Actually, I believe Russia has three builds, having gained an SC in Munich and having lost 2 units. Only one can be utilized though. France gets a build because one of their units was disbanded, but they did not gained any SCs on a net basis. 

Thanks for clearing that up - I was just working off Realpolitik's status window.

[Smid]

I did send you orders. You even replied that you received'em.

It's just that it was, like, almost a week ago.

(Checks) Yeah, it was actually last sunday. Topic header was, fittingly, "it's early but...".

I've sent it to you again just now, but I'll also just post it here:

Fall moves.

A Norway - St Pete
F Barents S A Norway - St Pete
F Kiel S F Berlin
F Denmark - Sweden
F Bight - Denmark
F North Sea hold
A Ruhr S French A Munich
F St Pete - Bothnia
A Sweden - Prussia by convoy
F Baltic C A Sweden - Prussia
F Berlin S A Sweden - Prussia

Looking this over, the Convoy fails and the moves attendant on that therefore fail as well. The support of Munich is also irrelevant (as I suspected it probably would). Only thing that moves is St Pete and Norway.

Thanks - I had thought so, but I'm not sure what's happened there. Anyway, that's why I reply to them (unless they come in right before I adjudicate) - so there's proof they've been received. I'll fix this up on the map tonight.

[Smid]

My apologies about the mix-up this week.

I have edited the post above to reflect the updated map which includes Lewis's orders.

[Smid]

France and Russia both built fleets, in Marseilles and Sevastopol.

Therefore, the map now appears thus:

[Smid]

The moves for Spring, 1910 were:



France
A Apulia Supports F Naples - Rome
A Burgundy - Munich
A Constantinople - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
F Marseilles - Gulf of Lyon
F Naples - Rome
A Piedmont - Tuscany (*Dislodged*)
F Tunis - Ionian Sea
F Tyrrhenian Sea Supports F Naples - Rome

Russia
A Ankara - Smyrna
F Livonia - Baltic Sea (*Disbanded*)
A Moscow Supports A Warsaw - Livonia
A Munich - Berlin
A Prussia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Rumania - Bulgaria (*Bounce*)
F Sevastopol - Black Sea
A Silesia Supports A Munich - Berlin
A Tuscany - Piedmont
A Tyrolia Supports A Venice
A Warsaw - Livonia (*Fails*)

Italy
F Rome - Naples (*Dislodged*)
A Venice Supports A Tuscany - Piedmont

Germany
N/A

Austria-Hungary
N/A

Turkey
N/A

England
F Baltic Sea Convoys A Sweden - Livonia
F Barents Sea Supports A St Petersburg
F Berlin - Prussia (*Disbanded*)
F Denmark Supports F Kiel (*Ordered to Move*)
F Gulf of Bothnia Supports A Sweden - Livonia
F Helgoland Bight - Kiel (*Fails*)
F Kiel - Berlin (*Fails*)
F North Sea Holds
A Ruhr Supports A Burgundy - Munich
A St Petersburg Supports A Sweden - Livonia
A Sweden - Livonia

After moves, pre-retreats appears:



There are two retreats required - both within the area included in modern-day Italy: French A Piedmont and Italian F Rome.

In other news, in a week's time I shall be interstate visiting my family for three weeks. It is possible that I may be able to upload maps and so on, however it is likely that I will be online very infrequently. I'm happy to continue adjudicating in that time, if everyone's okay with whatever delays there may be (hopefully not many), or we can postpone Autumn 1910 for three weeks - I can definitely keep you posted as to when I will be back. What does everyone think?

[Smid]

French Retreat
A Piedmont - Marseilles


On the game, I'm in favour of playing on as best we can rather than a 3 week suspension.

Cheers - I think I can manage, but there may be delays if anyone has any mid-week queries to which they need answers.