Wisconsin Megathread v3: GOP in MASSIVE DISARRAY

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Here's a quick map by ideological tendency with the two candidates on each side added together. Errors are likely.

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I don't care what someones internal polling looks like declining a debate never makes one look good.

I don't really agree with Hobbs' decision to avoid the debates, but I can understand it. Hammering Lake on abortion is probably the best route of attack for her campaign.

Why skip debates? I have a gut feeling Lake is going to win. Hobbs seems to be running an awful campaign.

Im just going to go ahead and call the election for Lake at this point. Hobbs is running a dreadful campaign.

Im just going to go ahead and call the election for Lake at this point. Hobbs is running a dreadful campaign.

Lake is running a dreadful campaign. I could argue the same thing about her - what has she done since winning the primary?

Hobbs is running an even worse campaign it seems.

What a mess of a candidate Hobbs is turning out to be. She is gonna lose this race against that nutcase Lake

Agreed. I’m calling the election likely R at this point.

For whatever reason, Hobbs refuses to share a stage with Lake.

That said, her and Lake just did a town hall on the third that airs on Telemundo this Saturday.

Hobbs said that she doesn’t want to platform Lake, but Lake is getting tons of airtime and coverage that could be going to Hobbs if she was campaigning as visibly. Hiding from the voters just isn’t a good look. I think Hobbs could make an easy case that she’s the better woman for the job, but abstaining from events just comes across as entitled.

Hobbs is running an awful campaign. At this point I'm calling the election for Lake. If Hobbs wins I'll consider it an upset.

Might be time to update your beliefs!

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It's me, I'm the guy who's taking this election for granted. Sorry!

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This certainly looks how sane and functioning democracies work.

How does Wisconsin, at least one heart of the Progressive movement, not have a robust initiative and referendum process?

Voters had a chance 100+ years ago but they shot it down as no party really made a case for it, and the Dems/GOP were publicly against it. Probably a good example of voters not really thinking too hard about what they were voting for.

Never go against a ballot initiative amendment. It's rare for a legislature to offer that and if you turn it down once, you probably won't get another opportunity. Lawmakers hate sharing power.

The counterpoint is that if you vote for a ballot initiative amendment, you'll be stuck with ballot initiatives forever. I can't think of a better reason to vote against it.

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This certainly looks how sane and functioning democracies work.

How does Wisconsin, at least one heart of the Progressive movement, not have a robust initiative and referendum process?

Voters had a chance 100+ years ago but they shot it down as no party really made a case for it, and the Dems/GOP were publicly against it. Probably a good example of voters not really thinking too hard about what they were voting for.

Never go against a ballot initiative amendment. It's rare for a legislature to offer that and if you turn it down once, you probably won't get another opportunity. Lawmakers hate sharing power.

The counterpoint is that if you vote for a ballot initiative amendment, you'll be stuck with ballot initiatives forever. I can't think of a better reason to vote against it.

I guess it depends how you look at it. Initiatives have been a key driver for marijuana legalization, and we'd never be where we are without it. It's also allowed voters in some states to end gerrymandering and roll back voter restrictions. Granted, it gets abused as well at times, but to me personally, it's well worth it. There are so many policies that never would have had a chance without voters being able to put it to a vote themselves.

Initiatives are a great tool of special interests to do an end run around the legislature and buy legislation, and then of course once they get their legislation it can't ever be changed without an initiative, which nobody can ever pursue because it would be cripplingly expensive to defeat the corporation. In 2020 we got Proposition 22, which means that the legislature can never regulate the working conditions of Uber or Lyft drivers; in 2010 we nearly got Proposition 16, which would have effectively banned municipalities from replacing PG&E with municipally owned power providers. There are plenty more examples of corporations using the initiative process to buy laws that could never possibly be passed in the legislature because they are odious to anyone who understands them.

The initiative process is also a great tool to weaponize in industrial disputes, because doing so only comes at the expense of voters who have to deal with frivolous initiatives. When I filled out my ballot there were so many things to vote on that at the end my hand was quite literally hurting. Of course I'm not competent to decide on any of this, because that's what elected legislators are for.

I care much less about marijuana legislation than I care about the place I live in having a functional tax base, which it never will because the initiative process allowed economically illiterate voters in 1978 to have their say. That can't ever be fixed because doing so would require a ballot measure that could never withstand the unfathomable sums of money that would be spent against it. The more direct democracy you have, the more you hate it.

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It's already kind of hard to imagine Wisconsin Republicans winning Supreme Court elections anytime soon. This is the type of stunt that could be used against them in local and state elections for well over a decade.

Would that be different from the present situation? As it is, Wisconsin Republicans have the issue that the demographics that turn out most hate them, and so their gerrymandered control of the legislature is the thing keeping them in power. It seems to me that the only downside for Republicans in doing something like this would be that it would be embarrassing if they couldn't get it through, and it doesn't look like they'll be able to. If they could, though, it would absolutely make sense for them to do it.