This Once Great Movement Of Ours

[CumbrianLefty]

Not sure she'd be a particularly good OL though.

To an extent, it depends on what you expect one to do.

Out of curiosity, what are the aspects of the LOTO job you think Rayner would be good/bad at?

She would surely be better than Starmer at rallying the troops and keeping the left happy (well, -ier)

Not sure about set piece Commons stuff though (she was OK in the education brief tbf)

And its easy to see how the right wing press would go to town on her, especially in a GE campaign.

I'm a fan personally, but can see she would have drawbacks.

[CumbrianLefty]

1) Turner
2) Graham









678) Coyne

















3,183,645) Beckett

[CumbrianLefty]

Too busy this morning lamenting the death of football to worry about Labour, tbh.

[CumbrianLefty]

Fascinating piece, a mixture of comical and depressing (often both at the same time)

Does drive home what a total vacuum the Labour right was during the Corbyn insurgency.

[CumbrianLefty]

Fascinating piece, a mixture of comical and depressing (often both at the same time)

Does drive home what a total vacuum the Labour right was during the Corbyn insurgency.

It's actually a lot better than the reports I heard at the time! But yes there was a part of the party on the right who needed to lose control of the party- the majority of these people aren't involved anymore in the party anymore.

Hmmm, some high profile figures certainly left Labour but not so sure about "the majority".

[CumbrianLefty]

Well they did tend to be the most objectionable to many people, not just you

[CumbrianLefty]

Tory factionalism can be vicious, but they do seem to be better at "getting it over with" and both sides accepting the outcome once things are decided.

Whereas with Labour, things have a habit of festering for years if not actual decades.

[CumbrianLefty]

Factionalism in the Labour Party is a lot like factionalism within the clergy of the Church of England: in both cases a big part of the problem is that new recruits are immediately introduced to factional groupings and are usually immediately indoctrinated into one of them (often for reasons that might as well be random) and then they learn everything else about the institution and life in it through the factional grouping they have become attached to. The only difference is that the factional groupings in the CofE do, at least, still map on neatly to actual disputes about fundamental matters: the current roster of Labour Party factions mostly date to the late Cold War and their alignment to each other is entirely from that period. In practice this actually adds to the unpleasantness.

All sides often talk about stuff from the 1980s as if it was last week.

[CumbrianLefty]

On that subject my favourite misreading of the Labour party was when a 'senior source' compared Tom Watson versus Caroline Flint in 2015 deputy leaders race as a redux of the 1982 deputy race...

Well, not least because there wasn't an actual contest in 198*2* (as opposed to a year earlier)

[CumbrianLefty]

Even some on the Labour left thought Benn Snr had a very simplistic and one dimensional approach to the EU - partly down to what they also saw as his starry eyed view of UK parliamentary democracy.

[CumbrianLefty]

I also recall Bad Godesberg being regularly invoked until at least around that time, so this applies to some foreign stuff as well.

[CumbrianLefty]

Nearly all things are "possible".

But yes, an outright Labour win at the next GE does not seem a likely prospect at present.

[CumbrianLefty]

The only even pseudo-gain for the Tories in that entire election.

(Leicester South performed a similar role for Labour in 2005)

[CumbrianLefty]

Though conversely, most of the Labour MP intake from 2015 onwards is somewhat more left wing.

(this is true generally, but may be a bit more so in the North)

[CumbrianLefty]

There are certainly some CLPs in no hope seats that are strong for "moderates".

[CumbrianLefty]

Polls for the latest by-election aren't looking good even as the national polls improve.

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1389458290170634244

Though note that this was done *before* that improvement. Still not good, obviously.

[CumbrianLefty]

How does it reflect on Starmer if Labour loses Hartlepool?

Well it was his team who effectively forced this by-election being held now, and then arranged that the candidate would be who it was (an active pro-remain campaigner in a seat that voted 2 to 1 for Brexit, and of course not from the town themselves) So yes, to a significant degree it will be on him.

[CumbrianLefty]

Yeah, whenever it happens Starmer's successor is not likely to be from the SCG.

(Lewis actually has some strong points, but as you say elements of his persona are a big red flag)

[CumbrianLefty]

Lewis is not fit to run a bath and the last leadership election suggests the PLP are well aware of that.

Including those who worked with him closely on the left!

Can't resist a jibe along the lines of "well at least the PLP are right about something" at this point

[CumbrianLefty]

So . . . anyone care to guess what's going on in Starmer's head right about now?

"Why did I ever stand for leader?"

[CumbrianLefty]

A taste of why the Labour Party can be unpopular:

'When a Labour canvasser appeared on a doorstep in the Tooting area of London this week, they were greeted with a blunt “I’m voting Tory”. Given Sadiq Khan’s former parliamentary seat was a tight marginal not so long ago, that’s perhaps no surprise. But what was shocking was the Labour activist’s reply. “You need to check your values,” they told the astonished voter.'

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-labour-hartlepool-analysis_uk_60959a24e4b0ae3c687e5904

That sort of thing has always happened with activists of all parties.

(so in that sense at least, a complete nothingburger)

[CumbrianLefty]

Believe me, in the past Tory canvassers have been quite capable of being rude to people - including those saying they won't vote for them.

Constructing an elaborate thesis over this obviously unrepresentative incident really is the worst sort of "journalism" - is this now what the Huff Post has been reduced to?

[CumbrianLefty]

Yes, but mainly because of the media. Most actual Labour people aren't like that at all.

[CumbrianLefty]

Any news around Ian Austin?

Has he formally joined the Tories yet?

[CumbrianLefty]

Almost everything??